I've been enjoying Oliver Sacks's "Uncle Tungsten: memories of a chemical boyhood" over the last few days and was struck by his mention of his brother Michael who knew Dickens's novels "Nicholas Nickleby" and "David Copperfield" by heart.

Without downplaying this incredible feat of memory, I was more interested in the term "by heart". Where does this phrase come from?

It seems certain the phrase "by heart" has to be very old. Before the circulation of the blood was understood, quite a few mental processes were ascribed to the heart."Put your heart into it" - meaning try very hard. "Where is fancy bred, in the heart or in the head?" Insults may be "taken to heart". "Good hearted" - meaning generous, kind.

When memorizing music--say a piano score--when I know it by heart, my mind no longer has to remember the written music. Something else kicks in--call it the old ticker. When you've got the music memorized and can play it by heart, you can really pour a lot of creativity into what you're playing because you completely focus on the sound and the touch.

I would guess knowing something by heart is knowing it so well that your emotions and creativity, once believed to have centers in the heart, are completely called into being, and your head, the great decoder, gets to take a rest.

...not that I really separate the head from the emotions, but am just thinking of the time when the expression "by heart" came to be.

Beating regards,
Wordwind

Um...I think what I'm trying to say might be related to WW's post. I was thinking "heart and mind"; then, 'by heart' as opposed to 'by mind'. Once something is memorized, then the mind no longer has to concentrate on the effort of acquiring it.

WW and Jackie are on to something. i learned multiplications tables by rote, but poetry by heart.. (and do drive manually transmission by 'feel')
i think there are different term for these learning proceses, because in the end, we use the information differently.. i just had transmission work done on my car, and it took me 3 days to 're-learn' where first is (not the stick, but the clutch peddle!) i just realize it as i started to write this post, but today, (day 4) i didn't have to think at all about shifting, something i have been thinking about since last thursday (but i didn't drive on Saturday).

education experts talk about visual learners, and aural learners, and kinetic learners.. we all tend to have a preference, but most of us use all three processes. i wonder where learning by heart come in.

I see. It does seem that you all agree that knowing something "by heart" is to know something without conscious
thought.
Now what is the Story of a Rose, and what is meant by Heart of my Heart. ? ? ?

Dear Milum: Apparently you are still in need of a parental heart-to-heart talk.

But in fairness to milum, dr. bill, he is not the gentleman who refers to one of the ladies on the board as "my man". Nor is he the lady who refers to one of the men as "aunt m___".

Dear Milum: Apparently you are still in need of a parental heart-to-heart talk.

Dear wwh, to my delight would I listen to your version of
a heart-to-heart talk, especially if you would leave in the
real juicy parts. - -

Dear Milum: I blush at your reference to the "juicy parts".

Dr. Bill says: I blush at your reference to the "juicy parts".

And I blush just thinking about the "juicy parts".

I was searching for the origins of the phrase "by heart" and also "by rote" to see if and how the two related (same meaning. Note, though, that the Old English heorte is similar to rote. Didn't find entymologies for either, but turned up this interesting list of heart idioms on dictionary.com:

Idioms:

at heart
In one's deepest feelings; fundamentally.

by heart
Learned by rote; memorized word for word.

do (one's) heart good
To lift one's spirits; make one happy.

from the bottom/depths of (one's) heart
With the deepest appreciation; most sincerely.

have (one's) heart in (one's) mouth
To be extremely frightened or anxious.

have (one's) heart in the right place
To be well-intentioned.

heart and soul
Completely; entirely.

in (one's) heart of hearts
In the seat of one's truest feelings.

lose (one's) heart to
To fall in love with.

near/close to (one's) heart
Loved by or important to one.

steal (someone's) heart
To win one's affection or love.

take to heart
To take seriously and be affected or troubled by: Don't take my criticism to heart.

to (one's) heart's content
To one's entire satisfaction, without limitation.

wear (one's) heart on (one's) sleeve
To show one's feelings clearly and openly by one's behavior.

with all (one's) heart
With great willingness or pleasure.
With the deepest feeling or devotion.

with half a heart
In a half-hearted manner.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Middle English hert, from Old English heorte. See kerd- in Indo-European Roots.]

Old English heorte is similar to rote. Didn't find entymologies

AHD gives rote possibly from Latin rota, wheel.

The sense is a memorizing process using routine or repetition without full comprehension.

Since learning by rote started when manuscripts were in scrolls, I thought there might be an etymological
association. But I could not confirm this.But in the search I found a new dictionary that was interesting, though apparently not yet completed. :http://www.hyperdictionary.com/searchbox.html

i learned multiplications tables by rote, but poetry by heart.

I love the multiplication tables, therefore I consider myself as knowing them by heart.

The dictionary.com list cites this idiom as "have (one's) heart in (one's) mouth". I've always heard and said I had my heart in my throat. Has anyone here used the mouth version?

I love the multiplication tables

Does you husband know?

Multiplication tables? I love my four banger.

I've never heard heart in my mouth--that would be a very tight squeeze, come to think of it. I don't think anybody's mouth is big enough to hold a heart. I mean, it's hard enough putting a whole chicken gizzard into your mouth or even an entire dinner roll--and definitely not a whole hamburger. So, nope--the heart would not fit into the mouth at all. But a little bitty chicken's heart would easily fit. Apologies, as usual, to the vegetarians.

Beating regards,
WordWolf

well, Dear Max, when your heart is in your throat, its hard to breath, and you feel like you have to gulp the air, swallow it to get it past the big lump your heart is making..

it seem in the thoat is more a US thing..

heart in my mouth--that would be a very tight squeeze
And "heart in my throat" wouldn't?!

Depends. Some people have a big heart, and some have a big mouth.

Depends. Some people have a big heart, and some have a big mouth.

And some have both.

And then of course there's the question -

Can you fit a Sao
In your gob in one go?

alexis

Dear Alexis : I looked into more than six Aussie slang dictionaries and could not find Sao. When I finally found it, I fell down dead cause the gaddam bitch had a left-hand thread.

"He's got a gob full of Sao and Vegemite." I've heard of Vegemite. But still don't know what Sao is, outside of Portuguese São for "Saint".

I don't think anybody's mouth is big enough to hold a heart.

Well, they say your heart is about the size of your fist, and I knew a guy who could fit his entire fist in his mouth. (Great party trick, but much funnier if you're drunk!) Therefore he might be able to have his heart in his mouth.

I'm more familiar with the throat version, personally.

Heart in my throat

Same hear, I've only heard heart in my throat. It is also an expression that is used in French "J'ai le coeur dans gorge).

In French we also have two expressions that look similar but mean entirely different things:

J'ai mal au coeur = My heart hurts = I feel like throwing up
J'ai un mal de coeur = My heart hurts = I have a heart ache (as relating to love)

Sorry, Bill, I seem not to have seen this when you originally posted it!

A Sao is a dry biscuit - like Saladas or Cruskits (although they might both be Aussie too...) - which were a staple when I was a kid (think I'll have to go and buy some, now I think of it). Here's a link: http://www.arnotts.com.au/Biscuits/OurBiscuitss.asp?BID=42#
(I hope that works) They're about 7cm square, which means that fitting one in your mouth is an effort! And they've got little holes poked in them, like a chess board I guess, so if you have Vegemite (dark brown in colour) and butter on it, and you squeeze the two Saos together as a sandwich - you get worms coming out! Well, it was fun when I was 8...

Dear Alexis: I looked at the "Sao" link. I think a generic name for it might be "hardtack" a large unleavened bread that used to be naval and military ration chosen because of its superior keeping qualities. When I was a kid it was called "Pilot bread" and often crumbled into a bowl with milk for a quick breakfast of evening meal. Sometimes I ate them with peanut butter on them, but never as a sandwich. I haven't seen them in the stores for many years. They could still be handy to take as rations for long drive or camping trip. I can't think of anything we have comparable to Vegemite.

AhHa Bill ... you can still buy Crown Pilots "TheFamous Chowder Cracker" made by Nabisco - but only in New England area. Yes. The kind you crumble in milk or in soup! Or lightly toast and butter! Or cover with peanut butter and reall marshmallow FLUFF! Yummmmm.

About 10 years ago Nabisco decided to stop making Pilots and we New Englanders raised so big a ruckus that they put them back into production but distribute them just in the North East ...where people know what is *good!
If you want a box, send me a note and I'll be happy to dispatch a box ASAP!

Nope, I don't think Saos are like hardtack - not as you describe it, and as I've always imagined it anyway - they are pretty crumbly when bitten into, but I've never heard of anyone crumbling them up deliberately; they're always made into sandwiches. And while they are good for car trips - they do need a topping, because they are quite dry - they're useless for actually packing in a bag because they crumble everywhere!

Alexis, I loved what you said earlier about the worms! I've done this with some crackers, but not with Sao - never met the stuff, unfortunately.

You Aussies have some of the best food....sighhhh....

And Unca Bill, Vegemite is close to (but not the same as) Marmite, which you may have seen....? (does it appear in the US? it do in Canada) Dark spread, anyway, with yeast, carrots and onions and salt as the main ingredients (if I remember correctly - don't have a jar handy to check).

Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.

with a few exceptions, most US americans think marmite and vegimite is inedible. Bird's custard can be found in most places in US, but not marmite/vegimite. I have tasted it, and i think it awful. I would have to truly be starving to eat the stuff. (little chance of that happening soon)

I think quite a few Canajuns think marmite and vegemite are inedible, too, but my fambly has always loved 'em - but we are of British extraction (I'm the only first-generation Canajun in my fambly) so perhaps that explains it. Anyone from the UK care to comment? (and I 'speck they have marmite in Ireland, too? anyone there like/dislike it particularly?)

Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.

And, just to drag this back to words rather than food (but not, alas, the original topic): where on earth did they come up with the names "vegemite" and "marmite"? The "mite" is probably to show how good it is for you (good on the B vitamins, I think I remember reading/hearing somewhere), and "vege" from the vegetables in it - but "mar"?!

Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.

I don't like the "mite" suffix at all. Makes me think of little bugs, mites. The food sounds contaminated from the get-go. Gross!

Vegemite is delicious. No ifs nor buts about it.

There was, however, an American exchange student at my residential college who thought that the Vegemite was Nutella, and so spread it on rather liberally and took a large bite... tee hee hee. Given its salty rather than sweet nature, besides probably being an acquired taste, he was impressed! As for the origin of the name - I knew once, but have forgotten. Probably somewhere on the web, though, if you're that interested

mmmm, nutella, the true ambrosia.

From the Marmite FAQ: (http://www.gty.org/~phil/marmite.htm - I think this has been posted here in the distant past, but I'm too lazy to LIU and give credit where credit is due...)

A marmite is a French stock pot or cooking pot—like the one pictured on the front of the jar and shaped somewhat like the jar itself. The name of the French pot is pronounced "mar-MEET." The product name may have been derived from a famous French soup, petite marmite.

Good thing I looked - I was about to guess mar = sea, since the stuff tastes like it has the salt of a thousand oceans in every jar.

Thanks Fiberbabe - I did wonder! what a great word derivation - and I like that the Marmite jar is shaped a bit like a marmite.

and I LIKE the taste! and the taste of Vegemite too (though I'm not sure I could tell the two apart, in a blind taste test - but I bet any Aussie worth his/her salt could!).

Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.