>but found myself noticing through the movie which bits were missing.

Anyone else relate?

Pssshhh ya. I find that most movies adapted from Stephen King novels can't develop ALL the characters in detail like he does, so they wind up falling a bit short.

Eg. If you've read the book Needful Things you'll understand why, at the end of the movie, a woman walks by wearing sunglasses, looking spaced out, dazed and confused. If you haven't read the book you wonder what on earth she is doing there.

The movie completely took me in, lock, stock, and barrel. (How
would a lock, stock, and barrel take one in? Have I mixed a metaphor here?)

Lock, stock, and barrel refers to the pieces of an old muzzle-loading rifle. If you consider yourself the powder charge, the patch (or wadding) or the bullet (or ball) you're not mixing the metaphor. Of course, that's one way to REALLY shoot your mouth off!

Max / CapK - which came first, Once Were Warriors the film or book?

It'd be hard to imagine the book (if there is one) could deliver the raw, gut wrenching (as I've posted before) emotion of the film. Let alone the calm patches (vistas of Kiwiland) between the emotional and visual storms.

The toughest film I've ever watched - but one that should be compulsory. Why? To remind all of us just how fortunate we are if we are loved by somebody.

stales

The toughest film I've ever watched - but one that should be compulsory. Why? To remind all of us just how fortunate we are if we are loved by somebody.

... well, at least, fortunate that we don't live in South Auckland. People who have lived there have told me that Jake-baby is still alive and well there, and smashing up pubs and faces with gay abandon ...

Believe it or not, the whole scenario was re-enacted throughout Zild during the 1960s and 1970s. The pub down the road from our place used to be known as "The Flying Jug", for obvious reasons.

Never read the book. Can't even remember who wrote it.

Romper-Stomper was pretty gritty, though, although perhaps a leedle less generic.

I would think, though, that for everyone - especially those who have over-idealised views of life in Zild - Once Were Warriors is more-or-less compulsory viewing. Leave your rose-tinted glasses at home, too.

I'd concur with those who have noted the impossibility of packing a densely scripted novel into the limits of a typical length movie. But conversely there is a class of film which plays to the medium's *strengths in ways that no book can, er, replicate. I am thinking of course of the stunning visual impact (which continues to affect visual design and architecture to this day) of a film like Ridley Scott's Blade Runner - the little story of 'Do Androids Dream...' is surely of limited interest and consequence by comparison.

The other film that absolutely astonished me for its trueness to the book, quality of production, and, amazingly, historical accuracy, was Gettysburg, another Turner Production. I never thought Michael Shaara's The Killer Angel's, his magnificient historical-novel about the Battle of Gettysburg from a mostly Southern point of view, would ever be translated so faithfully or eloquently to the screen. Aside from some, IMHO, questionable choices in the interpretation of Gen Robert E. Lee (Martin Sheen's or the director's, or mutual agreement, I don't know), the picture was truly majestic! (George C. Scott was originally signed to do Lee, which would have been a treat to see, but he got sick and had to bow out...looking forward to Robert Duvall's "Lee" in Gods and Generals this Fall). Of course, as someone mentioned earlier, this was a 4 hour movie so they had ample time to do the book justice.
And I still think Jeff Daniels deserved the Supporting Actor Oscar that year for his Col. Chamberlain...think the usual Academy prejudice toward new upstart independent studios robbed him of it (Gettysburg was the first time Turner Productions ventured a theatrical release).

Bridges of Madison County the book [gag me with a spoon emoticon], the movie, not worth $9 movie fee, but okay as a $4 rental. (but hell, clint eastwood standing there fully clothed, doing nothing for hour is worth $3!)

I have to say that I liked the film... [hang my head in shame emoticon] But then I'm strongly into photography and it inspired me to take good photos of bridges! Remember upstate NY, Helen?

Or a director. Stanley Kubrick, a genius of our time, made movies that transcended the best of the books on which they were based. Can anyone think of an exception?

I take particular exception to his last film Eyes Wide Shut. Uttercrap© And I agree that he is a genius of our time! The whole film can be summed up by its last uttered word.

Kubrick made classic masterpieces such as Barry Lyndon (my personal favourite), Spartacus (or is that Spardecus??), The Heist, The Shining and Full Metal Jacket. "This is my weapon. This is my gun. One is for killing, the other's for fun" Great stuff.

So why does his swansong show us a pathetic, badly-acted softporn film that has none of the punchiness of his previous excellence? Hard to imagine. I blame Tom Cruise myself. He couldn't act the maggot.

Re:--I find that most movies adapted from Stephen King novels can't develop ALL the characters in detail like he does, so they wind up falling a bit short.

and here i was thinking "Dolores Clairborne" (is that the right last name?) the movie was so much better than the book.

i like Stephen King's could be possible books better than his "eerie, otherworldly" ones, with a few exceptions. i loved Firestarter.

Just gave this thread another quick read-through. Don't think anyone's mentioned Ethan Frome...

Both the book and the movie are fantastic! Couldn't put one above the other. I read the book upon my niece's recommendation--just had missed it somehow over the years--and it knocked my socks off. So, I checked the movie out at Blockbuster, again upon my niece's recommendation, and that knocked my socks right up the chimney and I've been sockless every since.

Best regards,
WordWhooshed

Stanley Kubrick

I can't let Kubrick's name go by without mentioning one of my all-time favorite films, Paths of Glory (1957 w Kirk Douglas), one of the most searing anti-war war movies ever made. If you ain't seen this one, make it a must! It's a WWI tale about 3 French soldiers chosen arbitrarily from a whole regiment cited for cowardice, facing possible execution if convicted by Court Marshall, just to set an example. A powerful, emotionally charged epic with fine performances all-around. (Not sure if it was adapted from a book, though [just to keep it relevant to the thread-e ]) Paths of Glory...see it! (note to those who know the movie well: the description is worded so as not to give the story away to those who haven't seen it)

Eyes Wide Shut??????????????????...agreed.

Then of course there's oh Brother Where Art Thou?. Well, it's sure funnier than the Odyssey!

by Humphrey Cobb

http://makeashorterlink.com/?W3F211E6

Have to disagree with whoever above said that the movie A Clockwork Orange was better than the book. The book was different to the movie, but, IMHO, much more chilling. Guess it's subjective, huh!

I've got to get it out of my system - IMHO, Stanley Kubrick was less the genius that everyone wants to give him credit for being, and more a totally f***ed up guy with loads of psychosexual baggage who just happened to pull together both the talent and the platform to air it. Granted, of the Kubrick canon, I've only seen A Clockwork Orange, Eyes Wide Shut, Dr. Strangelove, Lolita, 2001, and The Shining - but whoa. That's enough for me to be convinced he was one freaky dude.

Now Rubrick, we all have odd tastes we can't account for at times.

For some reason beyond my understanding I love watching the movie Best Little Whorehouse in Texas and singing along with the lyrics...and it's so cheesy. [shrug emoticon]

> Romper-Stomper was pretty gritty, though, although perhaps a leedle less generic.

Spot on.

One of the things I noted about OWW (what an apt acronym!!) was that New Zealand and South Auckland were never mentioned in the movie. Of course the localities were taken for granted by all Ozzildians, received at a subliminal level, but I'll bet that a few members of overseas audiences were unsure where the film was shot. Some probably thought it was Hawaii, Fiji or maybe even the Caribbean. This ploy enables the story and the message of the film to apply to life in any ghetto of the world.

stales

I loved the book, but the movie was even better, IMHO. The funny thing about Robin Williams, I like it when he's not trying to be funny. When he is being funny, he's a hoot and a half. It just seems that he never gets due recognition for the serious, though. I'm thinking "What Dreams May Come". I still cry every time I see it.
Another that fits this category,"Anatomy of a Murder". Jimmy Stewart and Lee Remmick. She was the perfect 1950's out-of-her-element hussy in the wilds of the Upper Penninsula of Michigan. Jimmy, the perfect backwater lawyer, ready to be taken in by a pretty face and bullet breasts.
And, of course, "Johnny Got His Gun". The book and the movie were pretty equal. The definitive anti-war movie.

Then of course there's oh Brother Where Art Thou?. Well, it's sure funnier than the Odyssey!

Especially the KKK dance routine. I was in howls!

Have to disagree with whoever above said that the movie A Clockwork Orange was better than the book. The book was different to the movie, but, IMHO, much more chilling. Guess it's subjective, huh!

They showed a Kubrick season last year at my local arthouse. It was pretty impossible to get to all of them in two weeks but 2001 in 70mm is impressive no matter what you think of the film!!

I didn't get to see A Clockwork Orange (preferring to see Barry Lyndon with my girlfriend) but the programme blurb mentioned that he was inspired (perhaps not the correct use of this word) by the rape of his wife. The experience must have convinced him to make a far more graphical film.

BTW A Clockwork Orange is one of only three films to have been banned in Ireland by the censor. The other two are Lolita (Also Kubrick) and, more strangely (but not when you think about it) The Life of Brian. All of the bans have since been lifted.

The funny thing is I've seen them several times thanks to cross-channel television!

but whoa. That's enough for me to be convinced he was one freaky dude.

Yeah, great huh? That's his appeal to me.

For some reason beyond my understanding I love watching the movie Best Little Whorehouse in Texas and singing along with the lyrics...and it's so cheesy. [shrug emoticon]

Oooooooohhhhhhh, I love to dance a little sidestep! [coming out of the woodwork emoticon]

Signed

A. Film-buff III

I loved the movie, and it's hard to imagine a print version of Sellers.

Ja, Mein Fuehrer! I mean, Mr. President....

Am I destined to spend all morning writing one-liners from Kubrick films???

Is it just coincidence? Am I to dismiss it as accidental that you even posted with a Subject line of "Eyes Wide Shut" in the Usages that send us screaming thread? Ladies and Gentlemen, I offer that we may have a poster from beyond the grave! Cleverly disguised by the replacement of a single letter (which, come to think of it, could be accomplished as an alteration with one swift stroke of the pen - it's not hard to make an R out of a K), and in our presence to defend his own hono(u)r.

So tell us, Freaky Dude, just what were you thinking?

red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum red rum!

red rum red rum red rum ......

Do I hear Jack Nicholson nearby?

Do I hear Jack Nicholson nearby?

Not Jack! Heeeerrrrrre's Johnnny!

And remember Rubrick?...Mien Fuehrer I’m walking !!

And Max I thought the book Dr. Strangelove: Or How I learned to stop Worrying and Love the Bomb was great. Remember ? The author (some English guy (s)? was sued by the author of Fail Safe for stealing the storyline. Fail Safe the movie (Henry Fonda), though, wasn’t as gripping as Fail Safe the book.

Speaking of some english guy, I would very much like to know the name of one of my most favourite movies of all time. This is embarrassing but my embarrassment is overcome by my need to know...

Late one night some ten or so years ago after some social celebration I carried a bottle of wine to bed with me and turned on the TV.An english movie was being shown on HBO. The dialogue was hard to follow because the english talk prissily and my concentration was a bit blurred. But that wasn’t the problem. The movie was peopled by the most godawful cardboard jerks ever seen in moviedom. Unbelievable. A series of vignettes interrupted and punctuated by the moans and damming oaths of an old man while he sat on a toilet in a dark, dreary, dungeon. For an hour and a half I watched this ugliness, and to my reward I, didn’t turn it off. The movie, you see, was one hour and thirty-five minutes long.

I will dance at the next wedding of the person who will tell me the name of this movie so I can see it again.

Dear Angel,

Nagh...someone's just jawin' open-mouthed next to ya'! Tell the sucker to shut his mouth!

Best ruminating,
WordWrigley's

The dialogue was hard to follow because the english talk prissily and my concentration was a bit blurred. But that wasn’t the problem. The movie was peopled by the most godawful cardboard jerks ever seen in moviedom. Unbelievable. A series of vignettes interrupted and punctuated by the moans and damming oaths of an old man while he sat on a toilet in a dark, dreary, dungeon.

Well, Milum. You certainly gave us a lot to go on! No toilet pun intended

That coul dbe anything between Carry On, Hammer House of Horror or Steptoe and Son.

Details man. Give us details!!

Dear Milum,

Did I miss something? What did you like about this movie with a bunch of cardboard jerks and an old man sitting on a toilet in a dungeon!

Very, very curious,
WonderWhirled

Dear WonderWoman,

You, my dear, would love it. What with your penchant for the creative, you would be intellectually slapped hard with what this movie has to say. Trust me you should put this film near the top of the list of things that you must.

But as I was gonna tell Rubrick, I don't want to give the plot away and spoil the impact for others. But I will draw a parallel with what I see as the Moment of Epiphany in the movie Eyes Wired Shut. I'm a bit of a prude and have a reputation for walking out of movies that I consider profane. Several times I almost walked out during Eyes Wide Shut but, maybe it was Nicole Kidman in her underwear, didn't. And when she said "____" at the end, I said, "Ah HA"!

The full insight of this movie I am still considering but mainly it was a cathartic experience that succeeded in de-sexing sex.

The movie that I don't know the name of, did the same thing with the imagination of the human mind, in particular of fiction writers and poets.

Rubrick::Kubrick

Nah, doesn't work, even with an attempt at Backus-Naur notation.

In Wellington a few years ago, one movie theatre put on a season of the world's worst movies. The only one I went to see, on recommendation, was called something like "The Return of the People-Munching Carpet". I can't remember the full name. But, really, it does have to be the absolute, mind-bogglingly, most b-a-a-a-a-a-a-d movie ever made. Imagine people throwing themselves into the maw of a long-pig loving, dysentery-green nylon carpet that was so obviously being manipulated from behind that ... Nah, you HAVE to see it!

The audience was, I'm sure meant to scream in horror. In fact, what was happening that the audience was screaming with laughter. Many, many jaffas were thrown at the screen. Took me right back to my childhood at Saturday matinees, it did!

I need a Kiwi-to-Amuricun translation, please:

long-pig loving?

jaffas?

RE: long-pig= naked ape

jaffas are still up for grabs.

jaffas are still up for grabs

I do hope so! (Jaffas are little balls of chocolate in a hard orange shell)

You speak my language! Please explain more, this is something I have never heard of and it sounds wonderful! [drooling-e]

They *threw* chocolate?! Blasphemy!!

But, but, Max. Tis chocolate.

I thought "long pig" was a euphemism for human meat, as eaten by cannibals. Am I mistaken/psychotic?

Gawd, if I'd known the soul-searching I was about to unleash I would have used "human flesh" and "lifesavers"! Musk-flavoured or otherwise.

bel, since you're so entranced by it, let me tell you that jaffa is a combination of chocolate and orange flavours. My fav, actually, although that didn't stop me throwing jaffas at the screen in the movie theatres ...

Oh, now I shall never understand you all, at the top of the world. Not only do you throw chocolate, but you throw chocolate with essences of orange. Oh the humanity!


The theatre owners must have really been in a snit after each representation.
That reminds me of the corner cinema when I was a child. From 9:00 to 15:00 they showed kiddy movies (19:00 to 23:00, porn). When the crowd got too rowdy the owner would throw open the lights and threaten to call our mothers if we didn't pipe down and behave ourselves. She was a big beefy woman with one eyebrow that stretched from one ear to the other and the beginnings of a beard, so we were pretty quite after that. No throwing of anything (and certainly NOT chocolate).

Oh, and can I have some??

ahhhhhhhh jaffa cakes, sponge base, chocolate top , orange filling , the only "biscuits" that i would spend my pocket money on instead of candy, back in the days when i was knee high to a grasshopper........in fact i am going to buy a pack right now and eat the bloody lot!!

the Duncster

in fact i am going to buy a pack right now and eat the bloody lot!!

Be sure to throw at least some at the TV, Dunc ...

only if we get beat by the bloody kiwis tonight!!!!!!!! will you be tuning into sky sports at 12:30AM?

the Duncster

only if... (E.A.)

better buy another packet, Dunc!

yeah....probably....sigh

hoping for heroics from my homeboy Flintoff

the Duncster

Isn't that a kind of Israeli orange? Or a violinist? Or a napple?

Jaffa is the old port-city near which Tel Aviv was built. I've always assumed the orange was named for it.

btw, the native pronunciation of the city name is yafa (hebrew doesn't have a "j" sound; e.g., "jerusalam" = yarushalayim). I mention this because yafa is the hebrew word for "beautiful". I presume that's the source of the city name, but have no further information.

Yup ASp. I know they sell Jaffa oranges here at certain times of the year. I couldn't tell you when though. I know when our fruit ripen but am seriously ignorant as to ripening of fruit from other countries. They just show up in the produce section - like magic (imagine awed music here).

EDIT: oh, and I just remembered (this is the next morning) that there are also Jaffa Dates. So now I'm thinking that this may be an importer's name.

will you be tuning into sky sports at 12:30AM?

No I didn't - but now I'm glad I didn't. Once again, we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. So what's new?

Milum, I think the film that you're trying not to remember is Alain Resnais's Providence (1977) which starred John Gielgud, Dirk Bogarde, and Ellen Burstyn. The script was by David Mercer.

Unfortunately I don't know when my next wedding will be -- I'll just check with my wife!

Getting back to the original question -- I barely remember reading 'Howard's End' a few years ago. Then, when I saw the movie, I would know what was about to happen seconds before it did -- I guess I had SOME memory of the book, but it clearly needed triggering. The movie, on the other hand, has stayed with me. It was gorgeous to look at and listen to. I doubt I'd want to reread the book, but I'd sit through the flick again!

I've been told for a long time I'm in the minority on this opinion ~ Merchant/Ivory films are my best cure for insomnia. They bore me to tears. Nothing *happens*. People stand around looking very solemnly out windows, engaged in some inner monologue that I don't even get to hear as an audience member. There's no big Busby Berkeley finish. I'm paying to be entertained, not to watch somebody *think*.

I've been told before that I'm just an ignorant philistine for failing to see their genius, so I promise I won't take it personally if everyone takes up arms in defense of Ismail & James. But to me, it's like wine. All the most esteemed critics in the world can tout it as the best cab since transubstantiation, if I think it tastes like yak drool I'm still not going to drink it.

Mercy, what's gotten into me?

And while I'm at it, what is it about this thread that causes me to lambast prominent movie directors when I post to it?

What a relief that you wouldn't take it personally if I defended I&M (which I won't do), since I can't possibly take it personally that you don't like their movies.

Alain Resnais's Providence (1977) which starred John Gielgud, Dirk Bogarde, and Ellen Burstyn. The script was by David Mercer.

Thats it! What a happy present for me. Thanks Paulb, if you weren't married you would be the stuff of a spinster librarian's dream.

And since there is no future wedding scheduled for me to dance in, if I'm ever in your neighborhood, I will mow your lawn, wash your car, remove your rubish...Anything!

Signed,
A Happy Milum.

Paulb, if you weren't married you would be the stuff of a spinster librarian's dream.
Well, I'm not a spinster, and I'm not a librarian, but.

I am compelled to contribute (belatedly!) what I know about Once Were Warriors: it is the first novel of Alan Duff, which was subsequently made into a movie.

Movie better than book: Enchanted April. Unfortunately I can't even remember the author (shocking! I hate when I forget an author's name) but the movie was brilliant. I read the book afterwards and thought it fine - until towards the end, when I realised the movie had made a substantial change in one of the relationships - and I liked the movie version MUCH, MUCH better. Made more sense and was so much more satisfying. It's still one of my fave movies and one I turn to when I'm distressed and need soothing and the rejuvenation of hope.