US has almost five times the population of UK (281,421,906 vs 59,549,791 according to online almanac).
That could account for more frequent word coinage.

Those statistics quite possibly support the growing market for "expressive ugly vigorous slang", as well as more drive to establish an "individual" in an ever increasingly *coined language. Ethnic diversity (or possibly lack thereof - depending on which side of the pond yer talkin'bout) *has to be factored in ...somewhere.

You may be doing your fellow countrymen an injustice, tsu. A British columnist recently coined the word "Osamamania" to describe the sexual attraction some Western women secretly harbor for bin Laden. The columnist didn't quite get it herself but suspected that some women are aroused by men who give off a "whiff of cordite". (In this case, they are getting a lot more than a "whiff".) She also speculated on the "Stockholm syndrome" possibility and a mating instinct which attracts women to the fiercest, 'baddest' man in the crowd.

Welcome aboard, moss, and I hope you'll stay with us! Your post is a very interesting notion.

Thank u, Keiva. Is it interesting enuf to start a new thread? It would certainly be very interesting to know what women on this side of the Atlantic secretly think about "Osamamania", but it seems unlikely that they would 'out' themselves on AWADtalk. And who could blame them. I have been reading post-September 11th coverage in newspapers on both sides of the Atlantic and, altho Britain is America's staunchest ally in this War, fighting shoulder to shoulder even now in Afghanistan, subjects that would be considered taboo in America (like "Osamamania") are openly discussed and confronted in Britain.

I don't know moss.. there is, and always has been a backlash to women's liberation. taking care of your self, being responsible, is hard work. lots of people don't want to work hard. in a marriage, roles, just as often fall out so that each partner takes responsiblity for the things they find easiest, as they do along sexual lines--ie, cooking become the job of the person who like to cook best, not always the wife. but between them both, everything gets done.

the taliban regime is very harsh-- but very simple. a woman can't leave the house unattended (no shopping, a bummer if you think clothes and shoes, but a godsend if you think grocery!) they can't work out side the house, (and if you are single career woman, the idea of a forces break sound very nice.)

i think every one, once in a while, dreams of someone taking over our lives, and yeilding to them. for most of us, its a once in rare mood dream.. and we recognize that playing submissive, to a god like master can be thought to be fun, but its not.

i really think, the more responsible you become, the less the idea of total submission to an outside force becomes. I don't think it is too taboo to mention here, i just don't think its a big issue.

one aspect of freedom, is, women are allowed, if they want to, to do something very similar. there are religious orders, of all stripes, that accept men and women, into a cloistered, regulated environment. they exist, and still get people to join. in the catholic church, fully cloister convents get more noviciates than more open religious groups!

a major difference between our society, and the society the taliban is trying to create, is we don't force people to act a certain way.. but the same freedom to chose, leads some to chose a life style similar to the one the taliban is trying to create by decree!

and as an FYI, tsuwm, is from the west side of the pond, west enough to be in Minnesota, in fact!-- but don't worry, its the least of your mistakes.. one of these days, you'll mistake one of the fine ladies that reside here for a he.. and then just come to me.. i am very skilled at scraping egg of my face, i'll help you out!

and finally--Start a new thread! why do that, when we can weave this subject into tsuwm's?
(we do run the risk that tsuwm's topic will prevail..)

I'll speak for myself when I say that there is no subject or object considered taboo in "my" America... but there are *places for "this" discussion... and this ain't it. I'm sure there is an anthropological site somewhere that would love to hear from you ... and as to openly confronting issues, I have to agree with the *openly part, but not necessarily the *confrontational part.

In an attempt to *circulate... tsuwm, do you have a record of the earliest occurrence of ***-mania? More specifically, was "Beatlemania" created by 'mericans or 'glanders? (I mean, the word!)

moss... welcome to the big "rolling stone".

To be sure there are anthroplogical sites, but they are for professionals. While I like word posts best, I find many of the departures from linguistic subject frequently very interesting. On the anthropological thread, I recently read a magazine article which stated that when one tribe massacred another's males, the women submitted quite readily to having their male children killed, subconsciously approving of the switch to the genes of the victors. Cressida's "treachery" is quite ancient.

Great topic, perfectly proper for this board.
But one on which a gentlemen -- or even Keiva -- should defer to the ladies!

Being a woman ain't for wusses. Sometimes, when faced with the question of survival, a woman's got to do what a woman's got to do. If she survives, she can have more children [theoretically] and thus propagate the species. If she tries to protect a son in a lose/lose situation, they both die. I never did care for those type of choices, but sometimes you just can't choose which choices you get. War is one of those times.

Being a woman ain't for wusses.
So is Osama 'sexy', Consuelo? If not to you, can you understand how a woman who is repelled by his atrocities might still be attracted to him as an Alpha male. There is a former football star who is still very successful with women who have no reason to be believe that he is innocent of murder. As Kieva says, this is a question for the ladies.

I think I would like some clarification on what constitutes an Alpha male. Is it money, power, animal magnetism, some combination? What percentages? Does symmetrical facial construction play a part? How about body types? From what I have seen of the two aforementioned males, they seem to possess some of these factors, but does that make them Alpha Males? It is my understanding that, biologically speaking, as a male needs to disseminate his genes, a woman has the responsibility to attract the best genes she possibly can to propagate and improve the species.

Moss how about a link to the original article -- or some of it, if it is on a site like the economist (not that i think the economist would print such drivel..) that requires a paid subscription.. (and if i am wrong, i do have have a paid subscription to economist, and I'll get it!)

yes, there are women who are attracted to dangerous men. and there are men who race cars, or climb Mt Everest, or hang glide.. and who tell you these are not really dangerous activities.. but i don't think many women lust after the former football player, and i think fewer are interested in bin Laden.

personally, i am much more attracted to brain power than brute force-- and while i do recognize a very smart stategy with the attacks, i have no interest in someone so cruel, and self centered. bin laden think so much of himself and his ideas, he thinks we should all live the life he has designed.. talk about an egotist! only some one with a very low sense of self worth could be interested.
don't think any one here has that little self esteem.

I would like to share here part of a "Letter to the Editor" that The Reverend Charles Stanley of North Carolina sent to every major newspaper in the world (thanks, Ted).

I have a vivid memory of coming home, as a boy of about nine years of age, and telling my father of feeling helpless horror as I watched the neighborhood bully unmercifully torment a boy even smaller than myself. My father reflected for a long moment, then quietly inquired of me as to what I had done about it. I said that I had watched until it was over and had then come home.

The look in his eyes penetrated me to my core for he had never looked at me in that way before. He said that he was deeply ashamed of me and he sent me to my room with instructions to think about what had happened. It seemed hours before he came to my door. He sat beside me on my bed, and, for a painfully long while, he said nothing. When finally he spoke, he explained, "There will always be among us dishonorable men who are devoid of humanity and compassion. They are but naked animals and an empty shell of what truly is a man. They attempt to fill their emptiness by the exercise of power over others, thinking that it makes them whole men. Often they are enraged that they do not even understand their own emptiness, what it is that they lack.

"When these men are also cowards, they disguise themselves as sheep among the flock and attack from the shadows. This is the vilest form of sub-human behavior for even animals attack openly when they must attack.


"When humanity and integrity are present in a man, he expresses them as compassion. When compassion and strength achieve perfect balance within a man, they manifest as wisdom. The compassionate man feels the pain of others. The wise man protects others from pain. For, if you watch and do nothing to protect others, who will come to your aid when you alone remain and the bully comes for you?

"Some things are far more important than your personal safety and freedom from pain. If ever again you see someone being hurt, protect him, even if you are certain to be injured in the process. Then I will know that I have truly raised a man."

This line, "...they do not even understand their own emptiness, what it is that they lack", really struck me, for it is a deep truth. If we know only one way of doing things, that is then our limit. This reminds me somewhat of Edmund, a nearly-illiterate teenager I used to work with. He'd lived all his life in the inner-city projects, and knew no other way of life. I tried so very hard to get it across to him the magic, the wonder, the seemingly miraculous way that books could open up the world for him.
I don't know that he ever learned to really read. I didn't keep up personal contact with him. I do know I've never seen his name in the crime column of the newspaper, and I guess that's something. He wanted to become a chef...

do you have a record of the earliest occurrence of ***-mania? More specifically, was "Beatlemania" created by 'mericans or 'glanders?

There were in Gr. a few compounds in (rare and chiefly post-classical), expressing the general sense ‘a certain kind of madness’, or ‘the state of being mad after some object’, and corresponding as nouns of quality or condition to the related adjs. In the 16th and 17th c. a number of quasi-Greek compounds, denoting species of mania, were invented and used in medical Latin, and some of these, as nymphomania, have been adopted in Eng. Other technical or quasi-technical words, formed in the 19th c., are kleptomania, lypemania, megalomania. In the 17–18th c. the currency of F. manie in the sense of a ‘craze’ or passion (e.g. for some pursuit, or the collection of some class of objects) suggested the formation of a number of quasi-Gr. compounds such as bibliomanie mania for books, métromanie mania for metre, mélomanie mania for song; and hybrid formations such as Anglomanie mania for things English, tulipomanie mania for tulips. Several of these words have been adopted in Eng. with the ending -mania [e.g., melomania, a mania for music, hence melomaniac, one who has a craze for music], and in the 19th c. it became somewhat common to invent nonce-words with this ending. Examples are bancomania, a craze for establishing banks; Graiomania [L. Grai-us Greek], passion for things Greek; Italomania, wild enthusiasm for Italy; Queenomania, (applied by Southey to the popular devotion to the cause of Queen Caroline); scribbleomania, a craze for scribbling. The ns. in -mania have, actually or potentially, correlative ns. in -maniac; the words in -mane are of rare occurrence, and are viewed as Gallicisms.

1963 Times 27 Dec. 4/6 The social phenomenon of Beatlemania, which finds expression in handbags, balloons and other articles bearing the likeness of the loved ones, or in the hysterical screaming of young girls whenever the Beatle Quartet performs in public.


(that would be the London Times)

>if a woman is happy, she'll sleep upon a board

No women sleeping on THIS board!

Ted, we don't see you as merely a board. You really need to work on your self-esteem.

As far as Osamamania, I agree that there are those women who are attracted to the domineering, sick-minded men. I recall an old study of mine in high school on serial killers (all the good topics were gone) where I read over and over about the cultish following that such monsters as Manson and Bundy had. These 'men' received countless marriage proposals, pen pal letters, nude pics, etc. from women who thought they were special.

I find power in a man very intriguing.....but not physical power or weaponry power. Anyone can have power if given the physical characteristics or a gun, it's those that wield power due to their knowledge or personality that are attractive. Quiet confidence is also a very attractive trait for today's intelligent, type-A female. I would hardly characterize OJ or Osama (hmmmm....both start with an O) as quietly confident.

>Ted, we don't see you as merely a board.

Well I guess I could have written "No women sleeping with this board." But that would have been an untruth. And as EVERYONE knows here, I never stretch the truth or invent things. Ever. [running and ducking fruitlessly e-con]

I have two opinions on this topic, and just time enough to share them!

a. Have you seen how big his hands are? And do you know what they say about the proportional correlation between the size of a man's hands and the size of another organ?

2. The most unexpected bit of wisdom came from primetime TV a couple of weeks ago - a man and woman were having the old conversation about how women tend to choose men who are bad for them... the whole alpha-male, dangerous image load of horse-pucky... The upshot of the conversation was that women don't choose men like that because they're dangerous, they choose them because they're safe. There's nothing safer than knowing how it's going to end...

Dear Fiberbabe: "There's nothing safer than knowing how it's going to end..."

Somehow I find that statement confusingly cryptic. Several scenarios seem possible.

>>There's nothing safer than knowing how it's going to end...

>Somehow I find that statement confusingly cryptic. Several scenarios seem possible.

You're right, Dr. Wm. ~ mea culpa. I didn't mean it in reference to world events, but rather with regard to one-on-one relationships. Nothin' like datin' a bad boy, because you always know the primrose path it's going to take.

this thread may have set a record for the quickest 'hijack' (without return). bill, should I be feeling consternation that Ms. DiBattista's sentiments essentially went without challenge from her fellow UK'rs?
-joe (perplexed but singleminded) friday

>should I be feeling consternation that Ms. DiBattista's sentiments essentially went without challenge from her fellow UK'rs?

No, it's half term here, too busy sailing (and now doing the laundry/homework/chauffeuring as well as catching up on work to worry about such things. It's a free world, she can say what she likes.

I think we are still involved in coining words, apart from slang, most words seem to come from new technology and management gobbledeygook which is pretty international. Perhaps we like to use the words we've got, rather create new, unnecessary words, dunno, all I need right now is more sleep .. yawn ... yawn ... sorry not to have anything more to say at the moment, I need recharging.

Political revolutionaries have always been attractive to some. The famous red and black Che Guevera poster was a best seller here and seems to be appearing on t-shirts again. Somehow, I can't see bin liner posters being so popular here (at least not in public).

As far as footballers go, the current pin up in England is clean living, simple soul David Beckham. We can forgive him his funny outfits and overbearing wife as he appears to be a caring father and is becoming a truly great footballer.

jmh
(veteran)
Mon Oct 29 03:47:31 2001

jmh
(veteran)
Mon Oct 29 04:06:50 2001

all I need right now is more sleep .. yawn ... yawn ... sorry not to have anything more to say at the moment, I need recharging.

That was pretty quick recharge.

Jazzo, were you never an addict? Have you never thought "Only 10 more posts and I've cleared the board," only to suddenly find another half hour has gone by?

Bingley

>That was pretty quick recharge.

Sadly not. I hadn't realised that I'd made the second post. It was part of a much longer post, agued point by point (including reference to a BBC programme that had just seen about holy Hindu monkeys, fighting off an incoming male who once he had won, killed all the baby monkeys) until I realised that it really made absolutely no sense {keep thoughts of "what's new" to yourselves!} and cut out most of. In a "senior moment", I must have hit the send key, so the truth is even worse than you could have guessed, Jazzo, you whippersnapper!