In an article on the TV show The Middle in this week’s TV Guide, the cast answered the question “Did you guys immediately click?”


Neil [Flynn]: It’s strange. You’re barely introduced to someone, then you’re on camera and have to pretend to be in love and that you’ve known them all your life. Now we spend so much time together, we have developed relationships.

Patricia [Heaton]: Like the last shot we did yesterday. We were in the car together, and I forgot that everyone could hear us. We were talking about people who pronounce the “l” in “almond,” “palm,” “calm” … and just laughing our heads off. We concluded that you shouldn’t pronounce it, much to Neil’s chagrin, since he’s been pronouncing it all his life. That’s probably why he’s not married.

Neil: I didn’t realize how much I was turning off prospective wives. Who knew?

... Q: “What bugs you about each other?”:

Patricia: Well, Neil pronounces the “l” in “almond” …

Neil: I used to not pronounce the “l” in ‘wolf.” I was 25 when I learned about that. “The boy who cried woof.”

Patricia: My woof likes alllmonds!



This conversation puzzled me, since I pronounce the “l” in almond (and, calm and palm). And what do the cast members say? “Ah-mond?” “Aw-mond?” “Pecan?” So, I asked a couple of people to say “almond”, and they pronounced the “l”, too. Is it a regional variation?, I wondered, and if so, where are the cast members of The Middle from?

Well, a little poking around the net got me this:

http://www4.uwm.edu/FLL/linguistics/dialect/staticmaps/q_29.html

59.68% of those surveyed pronounce the “l”.
18.69% pronounce it “ah-mond”
5.65% pronounce it “aw-mond”
13.53% say something between “l” and nothing
2.45% say “other”, which is quite the leap from “almond” :p

Look at the map in the link. The variation isn’t regional. It looks like all versions of the pronunciation of “almond” occur all over the country. It was just Neil Flynn’s bad luck to be stuck in a car with the 18% and/or 5% who distain the twelfth letter of the alphabet. A shame, really, since he has been misled on his matrimonial failure, and “L” is one of my favorite letters.

So, how do *you* say “almond”?

I say something in between l and nothing, because this is just the sort of thing that I worry about getting wrong.

Boy howdy! Now I'm all self conscious about it and I don't know if I pronounce the L or not. I kinda think I'm with tsuwm here and sort of almost maybe pronounce it. It's probably one of those words like salmon where the L was added back in when we discovered it was from the Latin, which did have the L. The L was lost in Old French before we got the word salmon. We called the fish leax before the French word came in and muscled that word out.

A quick check of my Random House Dictionary shows that the L was there in OFr when we got almond from them so I guess there's no reason not to pronounce it.

I don't keep the L out of it.

Lots of red where I am: we say the "l".

Great story...and subject

I had to say it out loud to hear wither I do or not.
And I don't...well that is to say I kinda say 'ar mond'

No way can I insert the 'L' sound.

Same as Salmon. With that word though there is no 'sound' between 'sa' and 'mon' but if the L was deleted, wouldn't the word look silly!

Ahlmund. I think that for calm (and palm) my pronunciation varies, depending on…I don't know what it depends on, but it runs from kahm to kawlm, with stops in kahlm and kawm and all point between. When the L is there, it's just hinted at. Obviously, I, of all people, should know better than to criticize or laugh at how people pronounce things!

Peter

We called the fish leax before the French word came in and muscled that word out.

Thank you Faldage , now I know where the Swedish gravadlax comes from. I know it survives in German - Lachs, but I didn't know the leax part.

I pronounce the l in salmon and almond, it prolonges the a-sound
and somehow that makes me want to have both treats right now! Love those maps.

Laugh!

Yeah. Lox comes from the PIE laks-, 'salmon'.

Now the first L in salmonella is a whole nother thing. That salmon is from a guy's name and is pronounced.

I was just thinking about that guy and the trouble he
got into.

L in almond, not in salmon.

Aa-mond

I'm with you Avy.

I have tried and tried and I cant say almond by pronouncing the L
When I try to use the L the A disappears.....

It is amazing how we can try some words and they don't come out as we desire. So many people have trouble with
"spaghetti"(spusgetti). As a child I could not say "unless"
and it came out "un-else".

I can say al-mond if I want to, but if I do people will think I am crazy.
Nobody pronounces it al-mond here.

However you say it, I love to put them and raisins in oatmeal.
Yum.

I'll give that a go next time I make porridge, Luke.

Meanwhile...I did a little survey at work today.....and nobody pronounces the L in almond, in fact most thought I was mad for suggesting it.

100% against the L sound

And what were your "controls" for the test? Did you give
placebos and all that????

When we try it here without the"L" it sounds like
making "amends" for some wrong.

Interesting: "Porridge" is not a word used here.

For controls I would suggest several alternate texts for people to read out loud. Some sprinkled with words that have unpronounced Ls in similar positions and some with pronounced Ls and some with a mixture of each kind of L. In each case have the L words come before the almond in the text.

We always use the word porridge...what do you use?

I have always pronounced almond (much to my mother's chagrin) as
or(l)munds

I like that!
Candy????

"Or(l)munds" {whew} I find that somewhat convoluted. But
what do I know?

Porridge; We have different cereals, different grains.
Oatmeal, made from oats, Cream of Wheat, wheat.
In the South they have what they call "grits", which I
cannot abide. They put various things on it, like pepper
and butter. All of these might qualify as porridge, as
I understand the term. There is also Farina, of which
I don't know what it is made without looking it up.
So.....what is the content of UK porridge?

Are you non-rhotic? What do you mean by that R in there?

err oats and milk/water sometimes a combination of the two...some people put fruits and/or nuts on top once made. It is always hot. We have cereals (cold) with milk (or yoghurt (yeuch)) on and those have various brandnames, Cornflakes, Special K, Coco pops, Rice Krispies, Sugar Puffs etc etc. I remember, when learning German, how horrified I was to learn that they had one word for breakfast cereal - Cornflakes - that was it...it did lead to an interesting discussion about how, if you visit someone else, they know which "Cornflakes" you wanted...



It was my feeble attempt at spelling my sounding out... the or sound is kind of a more o like sounding of aw (as in awk) and the (l) was me trying to put the subtle l that happens (rather than a harsh l sound)

Now if you had given me this advice before, I could have made a more accurate scientific survey, but I fear 'the subjects' now know what I'm after.....so its too late for me to do.

At least I would understand what you meant Bex...more than some of the 'other' verbalisations that pronounce the 'L'

(and I still have no idea how they do that, my tongue gets all tied in a knot).

That's the problem with ad hoc pronunciation guides. The references are themselves undefined. If you say you pronounce "not" to rhyme with "cot", great. Do you pronounce "cot" and "caught" the same way? And, if so, do you pronounce them the way I would pronounce "cot" or the way I would pronounce "caught"? And how do you know how I would pronounce those two words?

In an unrelated issue, those of y'all who don't pronounce the L in "almond" do you pronounce the LL in Allman Brothers?

I have never heard that name....but I'd either say,
all man or L man, but not L L man

good question...I guess it's a matter of where you grow up or learn how to say it!

>I have never heard that name..
The Allman Brothers Band

Thanks TS...but what I should have said was...I've not heard their name said.

in that case.. link

We have all those cereals as well. I think cornflakes was
the first produced by Kelloggs, but I stand to be corrected
on that as well. Sugar Crisp, Cocoa Puffs,etc. all cereals
made from various grains or combinations thereof.
Oatmeal must be the same a porridge. Here where I live
it has water or milk, cooked on stove or nuke-able in
Microwave for a minute or two. Mixed with various fruits
as well. I put in raisins, almonds; or mix with brown sugar
and cinnamon and dash of maple extract; or cranberries
in their raisin state, or cherries, etc.

So I did say it right then

re-Gregg Allman..... gorgeous hair, wish mine was that nice!
and RUSH, thats one movie I've missed, must look out for it now.
Thx again.

almonds.....how do you pronounce that word?

aL-monds: definite L sound.

My last breakfast (at this hour, it was yesterday) I had oatmeal with molasses. Or was it porridge with treacle? Alas, no almonds.

So, how do *you* say “almond”?

/'ɑmənd/

For the record, I do not pronounce the l in talk, walk, or psalm, but do in calm and palm.

I don't pronounce the l in any of those! How can you pronounce the l in calm and palm?!?
And was it actually treacle or was it golden syrup?

How can you pronounce the l in calm and palm?!?

You mean physically or morally? It's a dark l (aka velarized alveolar lateral approximant, link) for sure.

And you all are aware that not everybody in the world pronounces English the same, right? For more information see the delightful IPA chart for the various, major regional forms of English and how they differ in pronunciation (link).

Oh, and I do not pronounce the t in often either.

I think he means morally. I thought so too, "How *could* he?"

I pronounce the "L" in calm, palm, psalm. I don't know
how, exactly, but I hear it, so it is there.
Treacle??

so talk and tak would sound the same? how about walk and wak and wok?

so talk and tak would sound the same? how about walk and wak and wok?

talk /tɑk/
tak (?)
tack /tæk/
walk /wɑk/
wak (?)
whack /wæk/
wok /wɑk/

thanks. tak and wak aren't words but I just wondered if you would pronounce them the same way (if they were) as talk and walk.

the more I say talk and walk I realize there's not any L in them for me, either.

what about talc?

milk?
folk?
balk?
caulk?
jolt?

all of those have an L for me.

I only have the L in milk and jolt.

now that I've said it a few times, I'm not certain about folk.

Yah. folk['s got kind of one of those almost Ls.

tak and wak aren't words but I just wondered if you would pronounce them the same way (if they were) as talk and walk.

I don't know how to pronounce non-words owing to the fact that English spelling is so screwed up. If forced to, I'd pronounce them as tack and whack.

what about talc?

I do pronounce the l in talc, but the vowel is different from the one in talk.

folk's got kind of one of those almost Ls.

No l in folk /'foʊk/, unless I am intentionally mispronouncing it as a joke. No dark l in there either.

thanks, z.

but what have we learned from all of this?

ziLch.

sparteye got us going for six pages of comment, at least.

but what have we learned from all of this?

That ad hoc pronunciation based on English spelling are worse than the English spelling system itself. No wait, I already knew that.

That the pronunciation of approximant consonants (link) is a complicated affair. No wait, I already knew that.

I guess I've learned nothing from this thread, but it has reinforced my awe in the face of all facets of language. No wait, you all knew that already.

You knew more than I knew, but you already knew that.

Of course I do appreciate that at least one of you all shows spontanious knowledge of Dutch.

Dutch treat means everyone pays his/her own bill at a
restaurant.

Too bad if we knew it all already or some of it at least..I was here for the discussion and Loved it

Too bad if we knew it all already Does anybody else say a'ready? [here we go again e]

say...a'ready! No, not me, do you?

Arright, arready!

Orlreddy

Does anybody else say a'ready?

In fast, colloquial speech: /ɔ'ɹɛdi/.

the L is pronounced here: in already and alright.

the L is pronounced here: in already and alright.

As it is here in careful speech, which is why I qualified my statement. On the other hand, the l in almond I never pronounce no matter how formal the register or the occasion.

I was watching an old show on an "oldies" station, and it
had advertisements from the past including the candy
bar Almond Joy. I recorded it and listened a
couple times, and it (sometimes you feel like a nut,
sometimes you don') clearly said ALL MEND.

Yes Luke, it's time you made amends or I won't pay your bill.

Pardon me all to pieces. I beg to make ALL MENDS. yuk,yuk

I'm here for the conversation too, Candy. It was just fun to see a word been called no word when in another place of the world it's just another word.
I was teasing.(bad, b ad habit)

Its a bit like the no L Christmas carol, then Bran