Video of an autist communicating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnylM1...

No idea what to think of it.

Unless I'm mistaken on what an autist is, what the link goes to has changed. It's inviting me to watch an ad for a movie, or to pick one of a handful of offerings, none of which seems relevant.

Your link gives the " general page ". If you can still find the item I think you should take the link after you have opened the item, or while it is playing.

This thread has also gone back in time. Where are the posts about facilitated communication, etc.?

Yes we were talking about what communication is, communing with nature, and all sorts of other useless and interesting things...

damn. we lost some good stuff here.

Re: "In my language" [Re: BranShea]
TheFallibleFiend TheFallibleFiend
old hand


Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 1154
Loc: Virginia, USA Let me try this again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnylM1hI2jc

#174253 - Yesterday at 10:38 AM Re: "In my language" [Re: TheFallibleFiend]
etaoin etaoin
Carpal Tunnel


Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 5920
Loc: Vermont wow.

this just stuns me into recognition of the work that Oliver Sacks and others are doing around neurological development. from my totally non-scientific place, it seems that somewhere along the line, a basic aspect of human brain development that is depressed in "normal" humans, to make it possible for us to live in groups, etc., doesn't get shutdown in autistic people. Sacks writes of several things that are present in all infants, that for sake of social/life reasons are "unevolved" (my word) as we get older.

fascinating.

#174256 - Yesterday at 11:43 AM Re: "In my language" [Re: etaoin]
Hydra Hydra
addict


Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 509 I saw this a few months ago.

It's incredible, so long as facilitated communication hasn't had a hand in it, which is always difficult to rule out.

#174257 - Yesterday at 11:45 AM Re: "In my language" [Re: Hydra]
TheFallibleFiend TheFallibleFiend
old hand


Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 1154
Loc: Virginia, USA
"so long as facilitated communication hasn't had a hand in it"

The thought occurred to me. It's not clear by what method the textual translation occurs. On one part we see her doing something on a keyboard, but it's not clear what's happening in that instance.

#174282 - Yesterday at 07:39 PM Re: "In my language" [Re: TheFallibleFiend]
olly olly
enthusiast


Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 206
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
Originally Posted By: TheFallibleFiend

"so long as facilitated communication hasn't had a hand in it"

The thought occurred to me. It's not clear by what method the textual translation occurs. On one part we see her doing something on a keyboard, but it's not clear what's happening in that instance.


Almost too well put together. The use of video communication is something that is not alien or incomprehensible to many. The story was well told and obviously thought went into editing, sound and graphics. Having said that, the message was loud and clear and communicated a common misconception about people with not only mental, but also physical and social disabilities. A bit of an eye opener for me.

#174285 - Yesterday at 09:11 PM Re: "In my language" [Re: olly]
Jackie Jackie Administrator
Carpal Tunnel


Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 9428
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky Hmm. Non-communicative? Hmm. Is it communication if you're expressing yourself in a way or ways that no one around you can understand? For ex., if I went to a place where no one understood English NOR any body language I came up with, would I be "non-communicative"?
I tend to think of non-communicative as making no attempt to communicate with others. I also have serious doubt that interacting with your environment--that is, handling inanimate objects--is communication, barring some special circumstances. [getting close to the If a tree falls in a forest question e]

I guess I'm thinking pretty strictly of inter-human, or possibly human-animal, communication. I've heard the expression "commune with nature"; and we have at least a couple of painters on Board--I may be speaking out of turn for them, but I will presume that they derive things from their paint(ings): that certain paints "give" certain feelings, for ex., and that different types of brush strokes give different impressions, etc. But--and I do know that people say that paint, or stone, etc., speaks to them--I still don't think these objects are communicating with the artists.

#174292 - 9 minutes 56 seconds ago Re: "In my language" [Re: Jackie]
The Pook The Pook
journeyman


Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 97
Loc: Tasmania
Originally Posted By: Jackie
Hmm. Non-communicative? Hmm. Is it communication if you're expressing yourself in a way or ways that no one around you can understand? For ex., if I went to a place where no one understood English NOR any body language I came up with, would I be "non-communicative"?
I tend to think of non-communicative as making no attempt to communicate with others. I also have serious doubt that interacting with your environment--that is, handling inanimate objects--is communication, barring some special circumstances. [getting close to the If a tree falls in a forest question e]

I guess I'm thinking pretty strictly of inter-human, or possibly human-animal, communication. I've heard the expression "commune with nature"; and we have at least a couple of painters on Board--I may be speaking out of turn for them, but I will presume that they derive things from their paint(ings): that certain paints "give" certain feelings, for ex., and that different types of brush strokes give different impressions, etc. But--and I do know that people say that paint, or stone, etc., speaks to them--I still don't think these objects are communicating with the artists.


Communication requires sentience or at least higher animal intelligence. A rock is not communicating with you even if you think it is beautiful. That's just you reacting to it and responding emotionally. "Communing with nature" is just a figure of speech. Besides, the word "commune" doesn't imply communication, that is, propositional transfer of information. It is a far broader term, meaning literally 'unite with' or 'in union with.' This may be a mystical union that has nothing to do with communicating.

It's a moot point as to whether the word 'communication' implies mutuality as well - that is, whether it is a two way process.

cool. that's most of it. how'd you do that? wayback machine?

I googled "communing with nature" +wordsmith, and used the cache version.

I don't think the wayback machine works that quickly, but I could give it a try..

edit: yep, the WM only(?) has "Search Results for Aug 01, 2000 - Sep 07, 2007."

I just read the WM FAQ..

Why are there no recent archives in the Wayback Machine?

It generally takes 6 months or more for pages to appear in the Wayback Machine after they are collected, because of delays in transferring material to long-term storage and indexing.

and..

If you have Javascript turned off, images and links will be from the live web, not from our archive of old Web files.[!]

and, wow..

The Internet Archive Wayback Machine contains almost 2 petabytes of data and is currently growing at a rate of 20 terabytes per month. This eclipses the amount of text contained in the world's largest libraries, including the Library of Congress.

> 2 petabytes

zowie. the world's gonna asplode.

I just wrote Anu about it, including "I'm writing in case there's a chance you just didn't realize this and there's an easy fix. If they can't be recovered, then so be it."

Thanks, M! :-)

Nice reconstruction act, tsuwm.

From the American Psychologocal Association:

Facilitated communication is a process by which a facilitator supports the hand or arm of a communicatively impaired individual while using a keyboard or typing device. It has been claimed that this process enables persons with autism or mental retardation to communicate. Studies have repeatedly demonstrated that facilitated communication is not a scientifically valid technique for individuals with autism or mental retardation. In particular, information obtained via facilitated communication should not be used to confirm or deny allegations of abuse or to make diagnostic or treatment decisions.

THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that APA adopts the position that facilitated communication is a controversial and unproved communicative procedure with no scientifically demonstrated support for its efficacy.

It is however fascinating to see how in one section of the video the girl looks out of the window moving her hands along with the traffic and maybe the movement of twigs and branches of the trees and in a further section responds to the wildly waving flag with a wildly fluttering piece of paper.

(This was my last post as I remember after etaoin said : "You guys should watch the video again.")

and then I wrote something profound.

heh.

Nope. Most of what she does reminds me strongly of what infants do before (and also still after) they have the use of words.(not in that compulsive way).

The waving, the water, proves that she interacts with her surroundings but at what level.

We understand our babies before they speak too and are amazed by the way they start to interact with the surrounding world. They 'think' and we think we understand what they see and think. But it seems to me this video proves a thing that someone wants to be proofed. I don't really get it, though as I said it is fascinating.

and what I wrote was saying that Sacks' work shows that there are abilities we have as infants that are "devolved" as we grow older, to help us cope with society. my suggestion was that autists don't go through that devolution stage.

Ah! Yes! That was the profound thing!

If facilitated communication was as effective as people hoped then this should be as or nearly as effective as a human helper. I use it a lot with patients with very poor muscle tone and it is very good at eliminating the effect of gravity during arm activities.

Oh, that's cool, Zed! I can see where that could come in really handy, to put it mildly.