On the thread about slanguage, we've touched on the subject of accents. I've been wondering which accents are most attractive, least attractive, and most intriguing to difference groups?

For example, I think most people in the US find the British accents and Australian versions of English more pleasing to the ear than the various patterns occurring in the states, although I don't know why. Perhaps from frequent exposure to it, I can pick up a Canadian accent even when the speaker has been long removed from Canada. My favorite US accent is that spoken in Minnesota, which sounds a lot like a lot of Canadians.

I have heard that native German speakers find American accented German attractive, but British accented German unpleasant. What about Italian, French, and whatever else?

I've been wondering which accents are most attractive, least attractive, and most intriguing to difference groups?

I find myself constantly battling a prejudice I have against the accent of South African English speakers, particularly those for whom Afrikaans is their first language. The accent sounds very harsh to my ears, and I have a subconscious association between the accent and the attitudes for so long associated with those who have it, so that I must fight the way "fascist" leaps unbidden to mind every time I hear the accent. The problem is easing as NZ becomes home to more and more immigrants from South Africa, and as I make more Sth African friends, but the accent is still ugly to me.

In reply to:

---

I've been wondering which accents are... most intriguing to difference groups?

---

I speak in what is obviously a "Southern" accent, though many people tell me it's not as strong as some (such as those from Georgia, Mississippi, especially Texas). What I find interesting is how many people here in Israel think, upon first hearing me speak, that I come from Australia! When I respond that I am actually from North Carolina, they don't believe me - it seems that people think ALL Southerners have some loooong, slooow drawl, which is simply not always true!

I suppose that's the fault of Margaret Mitchell's only novel which later became an award wining motion picture... (even though the lead was played by a BRITISH actress!).

But now, I must get my beauty sleep, for tomorrow is another day...

Shoshannah

My Uncle doesn't have a sothern accent, but, if you think about it, that's because he hasn't lived there for I can't remember how long. My aunt DOES have an accent, only arriving up here permenently last spring.

jimthedog

What I find interesting is how many people here in Israel think, upon first hearing me speak, that I come from Australia!

What's the Hebrew for "deepest sympathies"?

Accents : I was told by Native Hawaiian friends that the "Boston" accent is "the kindest to the Hawaiian language."
Consider that the first real Western presence in the islands was the Missionary contingent from Massachusetts and they wrote down the language and printed the first books in Hawaiian. They listened to spoken Hawaiian with Boston ears and transribed as they heard it. After the language was written down the King sugested that it would be good for everyone to learn to read and write. There was near complete literacy in a year.
wow

I find myself constantly battling a prejudice I have against the accent of South African English speakers, particularly those for whom Afrikaans is their first language.

I'm not a very good imitator of accents, but I find the South African accent very easy to imitate. I tend to wind up my Boer-descented acquaintance by doing gross exaggerations of their linguistic quirks. They find it nearly impossible to imitate our accent, and that drives them nuts!

I confess-- i still have trouble diserning australian from south african-- but not boer south african-- [ducking brick bats]

and while it is sometimes hard to understand a strong accent- a soft scots accent to me is the finest-- the soft rolling r's-- the name "Robbie Robinson" become poetic!
I think i prefer northern accect (northumberland, etc) of all th english accents. And while it was true for "Billy Eliot" several english film featuring northern accects have been shown in this country with sub-titles!

My job involves indirect supervision of a number of technical trainers, many of whom are from India. I find their spoken English to be some of the most mellifluous tones I've heard from anyone ~ especially endearing to me is the v/w issue. When someone has to "svap out a hard driwe", I have to work pretty hard to stifle my giggles of appreciation.

Anu? Are you out there? My compliments to you and your countrymen!

Often I find it very difficult to understand people from France speaking English (I don't know any French Canadians, so I don't know about them). Their accent is not only very strong, but it also obscures many of the consonant and vowel sounds for me. Other nationalities, such as Greeks, Italians and Spaniards (count me in!), also have very strong accents (i.e. very noticeable) in English, but the words are clearly pronounced and it's easier for me to understand them.

French speakers of English.

I know what you mean. The French seems to have the strongest accents and they keep them so long. It was said about Maurice Chevalier, that after some years he had to take lessons to keep up his accent. One of the worst offenders is Jacques Pepin, who is a great chef whom I watch on TV whenever possible to learn some of his techniques, of which he is a past master, but it's hard to make out what he's saying a good bit of the time, and he's been in the US at least 30 years. His show with Julia Child is a scream. She knows French very well, being a graduate of the Cordon Bleu, but she has an atrocious accent; she calls him "Jack".

In reply to:

---

many of whom are from India. I find their spoken English to be some of the most mellifluous tones I've heard from anyone

---

Fiberbabe - I agree! I have met many Indians here in Israel, and it is always such a pleasure to listen to them speak! It's even relaxing!

Some time ago, I met a man who had been in Israel for quite a few years and spoke Hebrew so well that it was hard to tell that he was not a native-born Israeli, except when I asked where he had lived before immigrating to Israel. He replied, with that wonderful sing-song sound, "Bom-bay"!

Shoshannah

Dear Shoshannah: I read somewhere the name for Bombay has been changed, but can't remember the new name.
At least now it won't sound like "bomb-bay".

the name for Bombay has been changed.

Dear Uncle Bill: The new name for Bombay is Mumbai.

We've been hearing more southern US accents in the news, even announcers and news readers (including several recent presidents), so maybe they're becoming more popular and accepted. My favorite is the Virginia accent. It's so smooth and soft, slow and easy. I think it takes the best of both yankee and southern accents.

I read somewhere that the southern accents owe a great debt to the speech of African Americans (who also cared for many white children). Maybe that cross-cultural, mmmmm, hybrid vigor, is what I find so attractive.

Strange you should notice this as most Australian's I know find the South African accent the most unlikeable together with the New Zealand accent. The two aforementioned, to be the most confused with each other and disliked in my circle. The accents most liked, on the other hand, are Irish, Scottish and some English accents. I don't think that American accents are considered much anymore because of their prevalence on the small screen.

I'm not a stanger, I just don't say much ... but I've been around forever.

>I have heard that native German speakers find American accented German attractive
Well, I wouldn't go that far Sparteye. Many Germans find AE easier to understand due to the kultural imperialism ;-)

>...owe a great debt to the speech of African Americans
This is of course true of the majority of popular AE slang too

>most Australian's I know find the South African accent the most unlikeable
I doubt this it's just the Aussies. Don't think I've ever heard ANYONE mention that they really like the Söth Äfrikn eckznt! As for Aussies not liking the Kiwi accent or vice versa; well (at the risk of being brazenly informed I'm wrong again), I think it's a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black. Try Europe, ..where you drive 20 km, and apparently speak the same language, but at the same time can barely understand a word!! ... that gives gives you a different spin on things.
The NZ and Oz accents are rather similar, unless of course one is cooped up in dialectal monotony, a dearth of pronunciational variation ;-)


[holding a flag with no colours]

I don't understand what it is about the Afrikaaner accent that people don't like! I have several friends here who speak with that accent and it's quite lovely and very easy to listen to as well as understand! Much, much easier than a German-accented English or just plain German - ugh! Though years ago, I did learn to sing in German, it's the one language I find basically repulsive to hear.

Here you can hear every language and every accent in the world - it's a treasure trove of sounds and ideas and words... And I still think Hebrew is the most beautiful of them all!

Shoshannah

Dear Uncle Bill: The new name for Bombay is Mumbai.

Perhaps, just don't tell shanks!

Strange you should notice this as most Australian's I know find the South African accent the most unlikeable together with the New Zealand accent. The two aforementioned, to be the most confused with each other and disliked in my circle.

Welcome Cathryn, always nice to have another West Islander join us. While transtasman rivalry goes a long way to explaining why NZers and Australians generally dislike the accent from the other side of the ditch, no NZer that I know would ever confuse an Australian accent with a South African accent. Given that the NZ and Australian are quite similar when listened to with an objective ear, it is surprising that your circle of associates could confuse NZ and Sth African. Like most Kiwis, I find a pronounced Aussie accent to be quite grating, but also unmistakably Ocker. I guess that to outsiders, Ausies and Kiwis are "two peoples separated by a common accent."

I'm not a stanger, I just don't say much ... but I've been around forever.

So you've just been sitting there reading all our posts and not saying anything? That's kinda sick and creepy. . .

Dear Cathryn: Speak up more often. We're glad to hear from you.

So you've just been sitting there reading all our posts and not saying anything?

Would that make one a VOYLEUR?

Shoshannah said And I still think Hebrew is the most beautiful of them all!

Odd - I find the Hebrew language rather guttural, and since I don't understand a word of it apart from "shalom" its "music" is all I have to go on. Not that I dislike the sound of spoken Hebrew; I just find your views on spoken German odd given your prediliction for another guttural language!

I find southern German rather musical myself - although High German can be harsh.

> your predilection for another guttural language

It is strange considering Hebrew and German (and a smattering of Arabic) fused with such ease to create Yiddish. Saw a Yiddish film once and managed to get the gist. German can infact be spoken quite far forward in the mouth and even sound quite soft (e.g Hamburger/northern accent)! When it comes to gutteral then other Germanic languages like Dutch and Yiddish, and definitely certain Arabic accents win hands down.

> ...southern German rather musical myself
Indeed, some have a real tune and rhythm. In Swiss German they really sing (I downloaded some Swiss hip-hop, it's really cute). As for Austrian, that's a Baverian (an already really dodgy) accent gone all wrong! 'Schwäbisch' is a sing-song and a hoot to boot.
U German is some average of all that lot.

Mahlzeit Leude

belligerentyouth said:

Don't think I've ever heard ANYONE mention that they really like the Söth Äfrikn eckznt!


I actually really like the sound of South African English, but I imagine it's because I have such fond memories of a wonderful teacher I had in elementary school who spoke with a South African accent. I imagine that many of our preferences/dislikes have connotative origins (like Max Q's rather understandable slant on the issue).

Flatlander

. I imagine that many of our preferences/dislikes have connotative origins

Perzackerly! That's why Antipodeans almost invariably think that the accent from the other side of the Tasman is the ugliest in creation, while outsiders can seldom tell the difference between the two.

My favorite Accent is monosodium glutamate.

Is this a shaggy dog?

I often admire the expertise of people imitating accents - from all other countries except my own. It seems to me that the Australian accent is almost never imitated well. I'm sure that my view is a parochial one. Do others have a similar prejudice?

Dear Lucy: I'd be surprised if you thought imitations of the accent in your own country were clever. You would be bound to notice exaggerations and subtle errors. For the same reason I find attempts at mimicking a Boston accent very unconvincing.

I'd guess that nearly everyone can identify the imitation of his local accent, but can't tell the real from the false in most other accents.

I don't know, Sparteye. If the imitation of his regional accent were really skillful, he might not detect anything unusual about it. The only things we notice are the mistakes.

If the imitation of his regional accent were really skillful,

Ay, there's the rub, Bill. It takes a very gifted ear to reproduce an accent so well that those who have it don't hear it. A Zild accent is seldom imitated, and to date, I have not heard it done so perfectly, or even nearly perfectly.

...It takes a very gifted ear to reproduce an accent so well that those who have it don't hear it....

Indeed, Max, though I suspect the situation might be different for 'standard' accents, like Hollywood-MidWestern or British RP. I have heard both reproduced with great accuracy by various actors and actresses. Pierce Brosnan, for instance, is comfortable just about anywhere on the continuum from American, through Irish to RP(esque). And Gwyneth Paltrow, for all the mockery she has been subject to (to which she has been subject?), makes a pretty good fist of RP in Emma, Sliding Doors and Shakespeare in Love.

I suspect that this is because of two factors:

1. Both the accents in question are very famous (if not popularly used) and so are familiar to many
2. A lack of idiosyncrasy in the accents - because they have been standardised for use in the major media of the two countries

This almost means that there is no such thing as a 'native' speaker of RP or HMW (as I've called it) - everybody who uses it has, to a certain extent, acquired it.

Well, that's my hypothesis, anyway.

cheer

the sunshine warrior

> to date, I have not heard it done so perfectly, or even nearly perfectly.
I have been lucky enough to hear a great phonetician at work, and it was bewildering how easily Strine and Zild accents came off his tongue; mind you I doubt those two present nearly as much of a challenge as some accents of the British Ilses.

I believe there is an increasing convergence between Strine and Zild. I was listening to a dinky-di Striner at a seminar the other day and realised that there were very few markers in his speech by which to spot him as an Australian. The only giveaway was his typically Strine use of "ee" for "i", although even that was muted.

Well, I'm going to Melbourne for Easter so I may take an informal survey.