I just spent the better part of the last two evenings watching the Westminster Kennel Club dog show (so named because the club used to meet at the Westminster Hotel), a fascinating exhibition of dogs and people. The announcers informed me of many interesting aspects of canine breeds and histories, including:

-> griffons are dogs with lionesque faces
-> terriers are ground dogs (from terra)
-> spaniels originated in Spain; making English Spaniels = English Spanish dogs
-> not surprisingly, the dog known in the US as the cocker spaniel is the American Cocker in England, and the dog known as the cocker spaniel in England is the English Cocker here. The "cocker" name comes from the dog's ability with birds.
-> "corgi" is dog in Welsh; making corgi dogs = dog dogs
-> Australian shepherds originated in the US, not Australia (what do you call them in Australia?)

Dear Sparteye: Where did Border Collies get the first half of the name? They are great if they have animals (sheep) to boss around, but get into mischief if they do not. We let one run free to keep coyotes away, and it chased cats at nursing home up fire-escape onto roof, then could not go back down ladder, howled until night watchman got him down.Watchman was not amused.

Border collies were developed in Britain, and according to American Heritage, were "from the border country of England and Scotland." Hmmm. Unlike as to other categories of words, the derivation of dog names usually seems to be the obvious.

Hyper and intense, they are. They are tremendous workers, and they often win obedience and agility competitions. I believe the remark last night was, terrific for a farm, terrible for an apartment.

It amazes me when people buy or adopt border collies and then wonder why they love to chase cars! It's hard wired into their genes ... they're herding them!
To me the most important thing said at the Westminster Show (and they say it over and over) is that before you adopt or buy a dog, RESEARCH THE BREED.
It's easy to do. Attend a dog show, in particular a "benched" show which means the people have to stay in the holding area with their dogs throughout the show so you have plenty of opportunity to talk to them.
People love to talk about what they know about. (Witness this Board!)
The other thing that's easy is to visit your local library as any good sized library will have the American Kennel Club (AKC) book of dogs which is huge and has more dogs pictured and described than you can believe exist!
Put Westminster Kennel Club in your search engine and up come more links than you can throw a stick at! or try this : http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/

wow

Sparteye comments: Australian shepherds originated in the US, not Australia (what do you call them in Australia?)


We apparently also call them Australian Shepherds here, although I'd never heard of them before today. The website of my state canine association has the following information:

While there are many theories as to the origin of the Australian Shepherd, the breed as we know it today, developed exclusively in the United States. The Australian Shepherd was given its name because of the association with Basque Sheepherders who came to the United States from Australia in the 1800's.

For further information:
http://www.vca.org.au/breeds/standards/standard.cfm?breed_id=13

Basque Sheepherders who came to the United States from Australia in the 1800's

I wonder why Basques came to Australia and the US... I was under the impression that the Basque people are intensely loyal to their homeland and language. Was there some sort of persecution going on? Why choose Australia when you're originally from France/Spain? Why am I asking all of these questions?

We have a Keeshond - the second one we have had - named "Saffie". short for "Saffron". Don't ask. Anyway, the origins of the name are well-known and if you're a teensy-weensy bit interested, you should look at http://www.sirius.com/~hbp/Kees/origin.txt

Saffie is a clever dog and is in the process of developing her own website. You can view this, if you wish, at http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/david.kinraid

There was a lovely story this morning on our ABC when the announcer sent a cheerio to a listener with a dog called Dash. It turns out that when announcers give the CD number of the item played as [xxx dash xxx], the dog assumes he's being addressed.

>It turns out that when announcers give the CD number of the item played as [xxx dash xxx], the dog assumes he's being addressed.

It could be also tricky when they give out the station's web address if you had a dog called .

what do you call them in Australia?

As far as I know we don't call them anything in Australia. They seem to be an American breed which look a bit like our Kelpie.

This message from an exceptionally refined Australian Cattle Dog

lusy

an exceptionally refined Australian Cattle Dog

der lusy,

i'm glad to know yer a cattle dog. now i know i don't hav
to wory.

luv,

maggie the magic rabit

Here's another one...

The town where the ferry from the mainland arrives in Newfoundland is called Port-aux-Basques (Port-a-BASK, of course, not really pronounced French-ly). Spain had a big fishing presence in Newfoundland in its early days. I believe there's also a Spaniard's Bay.

refined..dog
Reminds me of the story of the woman who sat in a movie theater with her dog upright on the seat beside her. At the end another lady walked up to her and said admiringly: Your dog is real intelligent, he seems to have liked the movie.
The proud owner replied: you should have seen him after he read the book!

Wow, you speak wisely in admonishing folk to research their dog breeds first. I can strongly recommend a book, "The Right Dog for You," by Daniel Tortora, which includes assessments of the life style and personality of both dog and owner to help the reader choose the appropriate breed. I used the book to choose our dog, a Newfie.

sat in a movie theater with her dog

Well spotted, Werner

Unfortunately the AKC dogs are handsome, but the brains have been bred out of too many, and congenital hips,etc, bred in. I have had many mutts with so much brains and personality that I did not regret their homeliness. Sadly today, even in the country you can get into trouble if dog is not kept on chain. And it is close to cruelty to keep a dog in the city.

wwh, must disagree ... bad health and bad dispositions are generally the fault of careless breeders. The AKC is a registry and has no enforcement capability. (I await correction from the Dog People if I am misinfomed)
Dealing with reputable breeders is best if you want a purebred dog. The AKC book gives the conformation and disposition of the various breed which can be a great help even when adopting a mutt! I have owned purebreds and mixed breeds and loved them all. My son has two Labs, one purebred and one a Lab-Damation mix and guess which one has a mind of his own! The Lab-Dal mix of course!
Good shelters have counselors who can be a huge help when you are considering adoption of a mix breed dog.
Shouldn't this dog talk be in AnnaS's great idea : "Recipes& other non-language topics" thread in Miscellany?
wow

sat in a movie theater with her dog

mav notes: Well spotted, Werner

Was it a Dalmatian?

Can I assume Schnauzzers are named for their schauzz - nose?

High Priestess wow,

Though your point is well taken, I figger Sparteye started this thread with an eye to language. What to do when dogs roam? Recipes is getting too long, anyway ...
I've half a mind [no-comment-from-the-peanut-gallery emoticon] to go over to Miscellany and start a whole bunch of topics that have seen sub-thread lives here, so each can have its due. But must first finish War & Peace in the original, da-nyet?

As a pug owner I always wondered where the name came from. The sources I've read mostly say "etymology uncertain". I've always thought that they were named in the West for their mushed in face. Pug from pug-faced, as in the face of a pugilist or boxer. Anyone?

I don't know where the name came from, but I believe pug-faced as a description came from the name of the dog rather than the other way round.

Bingley

why has no one mentioned the poor dachshund -- a half-a-dog short and a dog-and-a-half long?

I wonder why Basques came to Australia and the US

As I understand it, the Basques are world-renowned sheep-herders (sounds better than a shepherd of such renown, somehow) and there are Basque communities all over the world, who either still herd sheep, or got their start in an area in that line of work. I've seen Basque restaurants in the high Nevada desert, and been surprised to see them, until I learned that there used to be lots of sheep ranching in the area.

The town where the ferry from the mainland arrives in Newfoundland is called Port-aux-Basques

I read recently that the Basques were the first Europeans to discover the rich cod-fishing grounds off of Newfoundland, and maintained a quasi-monopoly on that supply, by keeping the location a secret, for decades. I learned this in a oddly fascinating book entitled Cod: the Fish that Changed the World. It's worth reading, if for no other reason than to see people's reactions when they see you're reading a book about such an obscure subject.

people's reactions when they see you're reading a book about such an obscure subject.

In Newfoundland it is not at all an obscure subject. Since people first started coming here from Europe, the entire economy was based on cod. There's a "famous" postage stamp featuring a drawing of a codfish and the line "Newfoundland currency" or something like that. Even in the New England states it was a huge part of the economy (isn't there a Cape Cod?). (Being in oceanography and all, I can't help but know this stuff...)

Even in the New England states it was a huge part of the economy (isn't there a Cape Cod?)

There is in fact a Cape Cod in Massachusetts, and in the main assembly room of the Mass. State House, there is a golden cod mounted on the wall.

There is in fact a Cape Cod in Massachusetts, and in the main assembly room of the Mass. State House, there is a golden cod mounted on the wall.

And a grasshopper is the finial atop Faneuil Hall -- the Cradle of American Liberty and headquarters of The Ancient and Honorable Artillery Company of Massachusetts.

Just for fun here is a toast popular for years with the immigrant population because it slyly poked fun at the power structure of the early 20th Century.
Raise your glasses!

"Here's to the City of Boston,
The home of the bean and the cod,
Where the Lowell's speak only to Cabots,
And the Cabots speak only to God."
wow

>The AKC is a registry and has no enforcement capability. (I await correction from the Dog People if I am misinfomed)

I know this isn't word related, but I'll relate it anyway. When I was about 12, my parents bred and sold boxer puppies. Basically an at home puppy mill. They had a bitch that threw white boxers, which I thought were kind of pretty. Whenever my parents put an ad in the paper that said white boxer puppies, a day or so later an ad would appear directly below warning people that the AKC did not register white boxers and saying that they should be destroyed. My mother had an attorney contact them after the third time, making noises about restraint of trade, but they kept right on doing it.

And there is a sacred weather vane of a cod over the State House.

Was it a Dalmatian?

of Faust

>I wonder why Basques came to Australia and the US...

Originally they were only exporting them to Canada, but they didn't want to put all their Basques in one exit.

Originally they were only exporting them to Canada, but they didn't want to put all their Basques in one exit.

Thanks, Ted. I was tempted to indulge in a little punning in this thread, but your masterful efforts deserve pride of place. I had to mull it over, but in the end I was too coy to flounder around trying to usurp your rightful position as sole punster.

Thanks, Ted. I was tempted to indulge in a little punning in this thread, but your masterful efforts deserve pride of place. I had
to mull it over, but in the end I was too coy to flounder around trying to usurp your rightful position as sole punster.

Oh, come on, Max, toss out a few puns, just for the halibut! And don't forget about those city-dwelling Basque sheep dogs, the hounds of the Basque villes.

holy mackerel! do you have no sense of chum, sirs, at long last?! my whole sole grieves at the moist rich smelt.

holy mackerel! do you have no sense of chum, sirs, at long last?! my whole sole grieves at the moist rich smelt.

Did you get that from a Salmon Rushdie novel, or am I fishing for sources? BTW, I used to think I was fish poop, because people used to call me a bass turd.

Welcome back Max. Alluding to your post, does this mean that you don't consider yourself to be a cod-piece?

In reply to:

---

Was it a Dalmatian?

of Faust

---

TEd, trying to save our soles, preaches hellfire and dalmatians.

And he said unto them, "Bad dogs, NO! NO!

Sparteye wrote : And he said unto them, "Bad dogs, NO! NO!

And they looked at him with wide, innocent gazes and thereby telepathed the thoughts : "Who? Us? What? Why we aren't doing anything! Are you feeling bad? Don't be mad. You know we love you. Let us give you kisses."
wow

Thanks for the welcome, CapK, my absence was forced upon me by a combination of technical woes and a welcome return to gainful employment. I am no codpiece, but I might be the hero of Cross's novel, The Cod Boy. The way this thread is going to the dogs smells distinctly fishy, so much so that I see lycanthropy as a real possibility. Having finally worked that pun into a post, I'm done.

Max Q said : I'm done.

YOU'RE Dunne?
For heaven's sake, write to your poor ol' Mother in Ireland!
wow

What's behind a codpiece ought be capable of more than codswallop

wow, I see you have a dog. You have the inner monologue down pat. I once had a labrador who brought down an eight-foot Christmas tree. When I walked in the door, she was sitting in the middle of the living room with a piece of icicle hanging down the side of her head with the most innocent "wasn't me" look on her face.

They're really funny when they know they're in trouble, aren't they? Ours chewed the corners of Sandra's dressing table when she was just a bit more than a pup. When we came home she sat, glancing at it out of the corner waiting for the world to collapse - which it duly did. The vet reckoned it was separation syndrome, but that's twaddle - she was bored and she pushed the envelope to see how far she could get.

She was happy once the hiding had been had and forgiveness had been granted. She's been pretty good ever since because she's out with one of her friends for at least part of the day most days. We sometimes don't know who's got her!

These days when she misbehaves, we just ignore her for a couple of hours. It's the worst punishment of the lot for a giddy socialite ...

Reminds me of when I was a slip of a lad. The worst punishment my parents could inflict was locking my books away for a week.

Bingley

wow, I see you have a dog.

Acshully, "Pearl," a 13-year-old, Bichon Frise, allows me to co-habit with her, if I behave myself, open doors when required, take rides with the window down to an appropriate level for sight-sniffing, provide food to her liking, keep all her four foam-filled fleece beds fluffed, and drop everything when massages and scratchings are required.
In my lifetime I have been provider to : Irish, Gordon and English setters, a Doberman Pinscher, a Dalmation, three French poodles (two minis and one standard,) a standard Collie,three Mixed Breeds, a hairless Chinese Crested and now, Pearl. I also had three brothers who would ask me to "mind" thier dogs "awhile." (Yeah, right!)
Oh, and I have "minded" the odd cat now and then, too, while friends were on vacation. Very odd cats : they all liked to play with dogs!
Even with the Vet bills, cost of shots, licensing, grooming, medicines, extra housework, etc. etc. I wouldn't have missed the love, friendship and protection each one of them has given in return.
wow

Owning pets in the semi/quasi-socialist NZ with subsidised human medicine is good for the soul. You don't really understand the true cost of medical care unless you have to make regular visits to vets!

From NZ, CapK writes :You don't really understand the true cost of medical care unless you have to make regular visits to vets!
---------------------------------------------------------
Tell me about it! Mercy!
My hairless Chinese Crested was a "rescued" dog. I got Pepsi from the breed rescue (great folks who dedicate themselves to the breed).
Pepsi had been in a puppy mill where she produced litter after litter, when she got old she was left tied outside the local shelter, no food or water. The local Breed Resue got her through the Shelter.
She was six months with Rescue Lady I got her from.
By then, 10 years old, terrified of strangers, afraid to be touched, homely as could be but ... those eyes!
After about six months of love and care she was a happy, loving great companion for the three years she lived. However, it took $2,000 the first year to get her healthy ... in Vet fees and special diets and for various miscellany like collar, leashes, licenses etc.
Don't let anyone tell you that a Rescue Purebred dog is free! T'ain't so!

But I would do it again in a minute for Pepsi.
Who needs a newer car? Dogs love you for you!
wow
P. S. Pearl is also a Rescue but she was given up because her former owner died so she is just happy to have a good home again.