Are you as annoyed as I by the promotion of every useless knick-knack or piece of junk as a "collectable" (alternate spelling, "collectible")? Seems to me the word has some value when used as an adjective in referrence to bills as collectable or uncollectable, but seems rather meaningless in its noun usage noted above, except as an indication that the item being promoted is not worth one's attention. Do you know of better words which can be used to distinguish items of real value and items which have been produced for the sole purpose of sale to a gullible public? (Please pardon the trite phrase.) Should we eschew use of the noun "collectable" altogether?
Hey, fellow Kentuckian! Didja know there are
three of us signed up now?
Before I get to the use of the word, I'll reiterate my gripe about the spelling. One way or t'other, and preferably the right one!
Danged confusing, mutter...
I would also like to see its use as a noun dropped, if all it's going to mean is that somebody wants you to spend your money. Danged greedy people, grumble, mutter...
But then again, maybe we should keep it, for, as you suggested, it already has the connotation of something manufactured to be marketed as such.
I can't think of a single-word term for something valuable that one can collect.
Jackie said
I can't think of a single-word term for something valuable that one can collect.Mathom
OK, Max, I'll bit. What in expletive is Mathom?
I'm unoriginal enough to want to collect pictures of dead presidents. wwh
N.B. the earlier wink: From The Lord of the Rings: "anything that Hobbits had no immediate use for, but were unwilling to throw away, they called a mathom."
Jeffrey asks, "Do you know of better words which can be used to distinguish items of real value and items which have been produced for the sole purpose of sale to a gullible public?"
The problem is, as soon as a word becomes sufficiently common in use, with positive connotations, it will be usurped by the sales sharks. The very same who gave us the abomination, "free gift."
The very same who gave us the abomination, "free gift."
Would he be the one who also gave us "forward planning"?
lusy
"Mathom"--excellent indeed. What a great pleasure to incorporate a word from _The Hobbit_! (One of my most cherished childhood memories is of my mother reading that book to my brother and me each night before bedtime.)
I have a word that I use to describe many things that pass for items of value worth collecting--"trash." I have an even stronger word for Beanie Babies in particular but I shouldn't post it here.
Long ago, i read somewhere, (and stole for personal use) the quip-- Collectables? you buy something to collect? I find things tend to collect all by themselves!
I am like the Hobbit, and find there are many things i have trouble throwing away-- odd gloves --when you've lost one good leather glove, or odd earings (ditto) playbills (and ticket stubs) Moving is the only way to get rid of things! and even that is not a fool proof method.
items which have been produced for the sole purpose of sale to a gullible public?"
Gullectibles?
In reply to:
Gullectibles?
Bravo.
I was busy trying to craft some allusion to flotsam and/or jetsam.
In reply to:
items which have been produced for the sole purpose of sale to a gullible public?"
Gullectibles?
Bravo, mav. Now to submit that coinage to the (as Mad magazine so aptly called it) Crank'em out Mint.
I have a friend who, on one of her trips to Germany, took a present over for a friend. She clearly labeled the box it was in Gift to indicate to customs that it was something she was bringing in for someone else. She forgot (she is fluent in German but doesn't translate very well, since she tends to be in one language or the other) that Gift means poison in German. Customs was all over her like a wet noodle on a cheap suit.
I've always seen this vogue for collectorabilia as the last resort of a nation with not enough antiques to go round.
Head down emoticon, waiting for the rotten eggs
Given that the current desgner vogue here is minimalism and everyone seems to be getting rid of everything, I predict the end of the Franklin Mint - it was the Diana doll that did it for me - there is only so much a soul can bear!
jmh opined
I've always seen this vogue for collectorabilia as the last resort of a nation with not enough antiques to go round.So, when are you giving the Elgin Marbles back?
>So, when are you giving the Elgin Marbles back?
Its a fair cop
Collectables??? One really has to buy something to collect??? Only those with more money than they need. And it really is not a true collectable unless there is a buyer for that item, so in the meantime, they collect dust and accumulate like dust in one's house. Hence,the term "dust collectors".
enthusiast
Gullectables!!!! This is the best word of all.
enthusiast
>So, when are you giving the Elgin Marbles back?
Its a fair cop
Ok, I hear Elgin pronounced with a hard g in the BBC programs that are received here ... Prior to the proliferation of BBC programs received I had always heard it pronounced EL-jin.
In US we have an expression when we win -- we walk away with "all the marbles."
Any connection? ...comments?
wow
>n US we have an expression when we win -- we walk away with "all the marbles."
Any connection? ...comments?
Nope. When I walk away with all the marbles it means I won them at a marbles competition. Just on the very off chance that outlanders might not know, marbles are small orbs that kids used to play with, originally made of stone or perhaps ceramics, but now almost exclusively glass. And very ornamental at that.
I've never seen a marble made of marble, probably because they wouldn't last very long. Marble stone isn't particularly hard.
Oh- I thought it was from the game of marbles-- you win others marbles-- and if you win big-- you walk away with all the marbles-- something like a poker game.
In marbles, your shooter (the best was an aggie--one made from agate--not glass) aimed towards other and you tried to knock them out of the ring--The object was to get the other guys marbles out-- and keep yours in.
Now- i just collect marbles because they are so pretty-- I never buy them-- I find them-- some times in the gutters (on the streets of NY)--or in gardens-- I am always looking for them-- and as a consequence-- often see them! I have found about 35 to 40.
>n US we have an expression when we win -- we walk away with "all the marbles."
Any connection? ...comments?
Well, also in the US people sometimes say "He seems to have lost his marbles" in reference to not being very smart or when one has done something stupid. And if it is a combo of half stupid/half smart it is "He seems to be missing half his marbles" SO could it mean that when you win "you walk away with all the marbles" means that perhaps "you've got what it takes to win whatever----"????
enthusiast
I'm always being accused of having lost all of my marbles ...
wow asked
In US we have an expression when we win -- we walk away with "all the marbles."
Any connection? ...comments?Nope. As a "colonial", I simply couldn't resist the opening that presented itself. Mother Britannia always knows best, that's why she didn't give those spivvy Greeks their marbles back, because, as greasy furriners, they can't be trusted to take proper care of them. That still seems to be the official line, though couched in a slightly more diplomatic turn of phrase. In the bad old days of Empire, what Britain, or Britons, wanted, she, or they, simply took. It was just last year that some highly prized mokomokai were returned to New Zealand. I was amused and horrified to learn at least some of the mokomokai were apparently made to order for cerain early settlers. I'm not sure how successful
that business venture would be today!
LIU
sir, but what is a "mokomokai?"
There's a good photo of one here:
http://www.digitalus.co.nz/mokomokai/main.html and, for all you never wanted to know about Polynesian tatooing, try here
http://www.culture.co.nz/ta-moko/links.htm
>In US we have an expression when we win -- we walk away with "all the marbles."
Bully on the block always does. (emoticon of some sort, I really am hampered not having access to those thingies)
>I hear Elgin pronounced with a hard g in the BBC programs that are received here ... Prior to the proliferation of BBC programs received I had always heard it pronounced EL-jin.
I was thoroughly corrected by my veddy British (Cambridge man) uncle when I pronounced the name El-jinn. I find El-Ginn a bit pompous, so I just call those lovely, lovely treasures the Parthenon Marbles. Which they are. And, BTW, thank god the Brits did lift them when they did! May have saved them from a worse fate than being blown up. And, now the Marbles should definitely be given back.
As to those collectibles? I've always had a quabble with "-tibles." Gullectibles suits fine. I will adopt the term post haste.
The Elgin Marbles and mokomokai are examples of what is a very thorny problem, with international and cross-cultural implications. A few years ago, an Australian Aboriginal elder successfully petitioned the British government to return the remains of one of his forebears, although I can't recall the circumstances of the original removal in that case. Whilst most people would regard it as improper to remove, or retain, human remains from just a few generations ago, not all cases are so black and white (scuse the pun). For instance is it improper to remove artefacts of ancient civilizations - you might say yes to those buried in a tomb, say, but what about an axe-head or knife-blade (apparently discarded) in an open area? What is the difference between "stolen" and "found", especially given that some cultures have quite different concepts of "ownership" anyway. And should different rules apply to things "belonging" to Nature, e.g. Should fossils be treated differently to rock paintings? Is it improper to chisel them out of rocks and take them away? But then where would science be if we didn't? Then there's shipwrecks.... And then there's....
I don't pretend to have the answers, just an appreciation of the complexity of the issues.
>Ok, I hear Elgin pronounced with a hard g in the BBC programs that are received here ... Prior to the proliferation of BBC programs received I had always heard it pronounced EL-jin
Yes, Elgin has the same "g" here as Elgar, keep the other "g" for the gin that goes so well with the music (Motz-art, for preference). If the gin gives you a cough then try a Van Gogh (it rhymes). There's no such unanimity on where you put your car on a starry night - a gar-a-szh or a gar-idg. Funny things g's!
In reply to:
If the gin gives you a cough then try a Van Gogh (it rhymes).
Wee-el. Only if one pronounces cough as "Kawg" or "Ko." In these parts, and I'm willing to admit that we A-murricans do things differently, we say "Koff" and "Van GO" (which is what the vehicle does if the brake's not set .
Hey, fellow Kentuckian! Didja know there are three of us signed up now?Hey, anyone got change for a $200 note? - I want to collect an ice cream
If the gin gives you a cough then try a Van Gogh (it rhymes)In that pseudo-Dutch Anglicisation poular in the British English part of the world. I've always that that attempting to pronounce the name in Dutch is itself cough-inducing, rather like Llanelli.
>rather like Llanelli
Actually, I'm rather good at pronouncing llanelli , it's all in the throatelli
and "Van GO" (which is what the vehicle does if the brake's not set
I think that Van Go might have agreed with you but he didn't get chance to express an opinion so the answer in the meantime is in the lap of the gods,
PS In my youth "Van Go" was a pet peeve but now I've grown up I'm not so sure, perhaps I've mellowed!
In reply to:
In my youth "Van Go" was a pet peave but now I've grown up I'm not so sure, perhaps I've mellowed!
I'm not sure I'm peeved by this pronounciation or not. Just know that for most Americans it is what we can manage to spit out. If I pronounce Van Gogh with a soft German/Dutch "ch" at the end I'm looked upon as an elitist snob. So, when in Rome... (Yes, yes, I know, what do I care what they think.....)
if I pronounce Van Gogh with a soft German/Dutch "ch"It's interesting that you pair the German and Dutch pronunciation of "ch" - they can be
very different things indeed. A close friend of mine comes from Scheveningen, a Dutch town whose name was used by the Dutch Resistance to weed out German spies, as native German speakers could almost never get the sound right, pronouncing it in the German manner, rather than the much more throaty Dutch. The sound varies considerably from region to region among the Dutch. When I was first taught the Dutch word "gek" meaning crazy, it was by a Flemish speaker, who pronounced the guttural "g" almost as "h" so, when I tried to say "I am crazy" to some Dutch friends, they thought I was saying "I am gate" - and then kindly schooled me in the tricky art of mastering Dutch gutturalisms.
and then kindly schooled me in the tricky art of mastering Dutch gutturalisms.Ouch! I bet that hurt, Max. I was in Holland for some weeks a few years ago, and because I'd learned German, I pronounced most of the names in the German manner (with the limitations of my ability to speak German, too). I got some very old-fashioned looks, particularly when I was in the eastern part of the country. I think
I was weeded out as a German spy - until they heard my German!
they can be very different things indeedYou are so right, Max. My only defense is the time of day I was posting (2:30am by my clock) and the hopped up state of my slightly inebriated brain.
