Let me call you Sweetheart!
Follow the Yellow Brick Road!
Gather Ye' Rosebuds While Ye' May!
Dig it! Dig it!
[obligatory cross thread]
Celebrate! Celebrate!! Dance to the music!!!
Now let us sport us while we may, / And now, like amorous birds of prey, ...
Let us roll all our strength and all / Our sweetness up into one ball,
And tear our pleasures with rough strife / Through the iron gates of life:
Thus, though we cannot make our sun / Stand still, yet we will make him run.
... Beware! Beware! / His flashing eyes, his floating hair!
Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread,
For he on honey-dew hath fed, / And drunk the milk of Paradise."
Fill up the glasses and drink once again / To peace on this earth and good will among men.
Let the toast pass, / Drink to the lass, / I'll warrant she'll prove an excuse for the glass. self-YART
Singasong
Express Yourself
Let it Be
Up the Kiwis! And the poms ... the whole sodding lot of them *sob* *sniffle*
"Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da, Life goes on, onnnnn!...la, la, la, la, life goes on!"
Gather Ye' Rosebuds While Ye' May!
Why is "Ye" followed by an apostrophe!
Argh she blows!
There is nothing like a good yart saver!
Free willy-nilly!
Love Me Do
Stop! In the Name of Love
Take Me Home Country Roads
To' AnnaS':'
Get' me' an' editor'!'
Gather Ye' Rosebuds While Ye' May!
Why is "Ye" followed by an apostrophe!
I would gather that's it's because Ye' here means your. He's saying "Gather Yer Rosebuds" but cutting off the r.
Ye' here means your
I thought it meant the.
Gather Ye' Rosebuds While Ye' May!
I would gather that's it's because Ye' here means your. He's saying "Gather Yer Rosebuds" but cutting off the r.
Ummmmm.....whattabout the second Ye'? HMMMMMMM???
Shake your bootie!
shake~shake~shake(_|_)~(_\_)~(_/_)~(_|_)shake~shake~shake~(_\_)~(_/_)~(_|_)~(_\_)shake your bootie,~(_\_)~(_/_)~(_|_)~(_\_)shake your bootie, YEAH!
Go! duh-duh-duh-DUH-duh-duh Go Johnny Go!
Get down, Get down, Get down! Get down tonight!
Gimme 5!
Keep your eye on that Grand Old Flag!
'Up, Up and Away...in my Beautiful Balloooon........."
"Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!" if I didn't spell it right, that's okay, that ain't the point!
"I'm Sittin' on top of the World, just rollin' along, just rollin' along....."
"Nothin' could be finer/than to be in Carolina/in the morrrrrning!" oops!
Roooooose-bud. (Gather ye citizens while ye kane!) sorry
Ummmmm.....whattabout the second Ye'? HMMMMMMM???
Well, I didn't say I gathered correctly.
I am going to do something out of the ordinary: quote an entire, lengthy post. It is also an out-of-the-ordinary act that it is my own. And I chose this one, not because of any belief that it's so great, but simply because I remembered writing it, and for this reason knew it should be fairly easy for me to find! It speaks to the point I am trying to make: that I thought we had, by and large, come to an agreement not to be nitpicky about things that are just oversights, and I sincerely hope we can go back to that. Here we go, and thank you for your indulgence.
You-all know what? All of this underscores, heavily, the
obvious fact that people are all different. I personally
feel that I can't stand arguments--but on the other hand,
I can't stand it when people say things that are not correct. SO--if my husband says, for example, that
something happened at 3:00 and I say no, 4:00, HIS view of
that is that I am arguing with him. So in that sense, we
argue about what an argument is!
Each person has different "sore spots" and tolerance
levels. Some people do not mind being corrected in a very
forceful manner; others read more into the slightest hint
than was intended. I must reluctantly ackowledge also that
sometimes people deliberately try to cause hurt. This is
where each individual's ability must stand on its own, and
be able to decide: not to respond, to respond in kind, or
to respond at a higher level of civility.
Sometimes the recipient can be harmed when none was
intended. This also presents a choice: whether to let
their hurt be known, and in what manner. AND--whether the
hurt was intentional or not, if the person causing it
knows of the harm, one would hope a non-hurtful explanation
and apology would be forthcoming. Sometimes a simple,
"Oh, no, that wasn't what I meant at all" can work wonders.
There are also times when I have said, "If this upsets you,
I'm sorry, but the fact remains that...".
I guess my primary concern about arguments arises when
there are harsh feelings caused unnecessarily. If there
is a possibility of resolution, or near-resolution, I say
that it is worth working through hurt feelings in most cases. But arguing on and on about something that is not
going to be resolved, ever (ex.--if someone tried to argue
that I should get interested in politics!), is to me not only a thorough waste of time and energy that could be better spent elsewhere, but actually detrimental, and
should cease as soon as possible.
That said, I will add that I agree strongly with Jo, in
that it is extremely difficult to interpret a speaker's
intentions from printed words alone. The :-) faces can
help, but there just aren't the cues we get from seeing/hearing the other. I hope we can all allow for the
possibility that we may not be getting the writer's true meaning.
I would ask that everyone just do their best at not being antagonistic, and take into consideration the
importance/relevance(y?) of each situation. I myself
happen to be a good speller, and always notice if something is mis-spelled. But here, I see no point in commenting on this as long as I understand the meaning--I make the decision each time that considering the other's feelings has a higher priority than my discontent. If I see a mis-spelling on a store sign, I tell them. Different setting, different relevance, different response.
Peace, y'all! (She said in Atlantan.) Here's the link:
http://wordsmith.org/board/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=miscellany&Number=1321
Drum roll please?
Let It Snow, Let It Snow, Let It Snow!
My 50th post! But who's counting?
"There ain't no good guys/ There ain't no bad guys/ There's only you and me, and we just disagree." 
--Dave Mason
i...always notice if something is mis-spelled[apophasis] i won't do it. i won't. [/apophasis]
To' AnnaS':'
Get' me' an' editor'!'
Or, as Hamlet would have it, Get thee to a nounery!
STOP!!! in the name of love, before you break my heart (baby, think it over!)
Angel, thought I'd take that imperative on to the next one. Forgive the repetition, but I thought it merited repetition and continuation.
(warning: word post
):
I'm inclined to think that the "Gather ye" construction is probably from OE or ME, akin to the imperative that has survived into modern-day German (
Gehen Sie! = Go [you]!). The imperative pronoun has since disappeared from modern English, but it is understood.
As for "ye" meaning "the," sure, that's how the article was spelled when the old thorn (my Mac doesn't seem to want reproduce a thorn
) began to wither away. But I don't think it applies in this poem.
Comments? NicholasW, tsuwm, anyone who has a better handle on this?
"Sing! Sing! Sing!"
And if you remember that one you are a musician or at least as old as I am!!!
gather you rosebuds while you may
ye', that's the way I've always scanned it.
'yep
gather you rosebuds while you maynot sure if you're being facetious or not, tsuwm, but this makes sense.... "gather you" appears to be an anastrophic imperative, similar to a french construction like gather-you. i don't believe the intended meaning of the line was to tell us to hoard or gather the rosebuds that already belong to us, as would be the translation of "gather your rosebuds", but rather a suggestion that we go out and gather these metaphorical rosebuds from outside sources. hrm, i'm having trouble expressing my thoughts here, but it makes perfect sense to me
but anyhow... are you saying, tsuwm, that if "gather-you rosebuds while you may" is indeed correct, then the insertion of the apostrophes is
* incorrect? sounds right to me.
*: [cross-threading] note in this case we use *is* rather than are, because the adjectival phrase "is incorrect" modifies "insertion", not apostrophe.[/cross-threading]
Here's the poem, courtesy of the Poetry Archives. And all the other book anthologies I have offer the same print. I have always seen "Gather ye rose-buds while ye may," but notice that Herrick uses both forms, ye and you, in the final stanza.
TO THE VIRGINS, TO MAKE MUCH OF TIME
by Robert Herrick (1591-1674)
Gather ye rose-buds while ye may:
Old Time is still a-flying;
And this same flower that smiles to-day,
To-morrow will be dying.
The glorious lamp of heaven, the Sun,
The higher he's a-getting,
The sooner will his race be run,
And nearer he's to setting.
That age is best, which is the first,
When youth and blood are warmer;
But being spent, the worse, and worst
Times, still succeed the former.
--Then be not coy, but use your time,
And while ye may, go marry;
For having lost but once your prime,
You may for ever tarry.
AN EPITAPH UPON A VIRGIN
Here a solemn fast we keep,
While all beauty lies asleep;
Hush'd be all things, no noise here
But the toning of a tear;
Or a sigh of such as bring
Cowslips for her covering.
Robert Herrick
THE MOST AUDACIOUS EXULTATION IN THE IMPERATIVE EVER SPOKEN BY MORTAL MAN.
Zarathustra had meditated in the cave for forty day and forty nights with only his eagle, his serpent, and his rod for company. He grew weary of his new found wisdom. He needed outstretched hands to receive it. So on the fortieth day the walked to the entrance of the cave and spoke to the early morning Sun.
He said...
AWAKE! THOU GREAT STAR. WHAT WOULD THY GLORY BE IF THOU HAD NOT THOSE UPON WHOM THOU SHINIETH!
Nietzsche, Song of Zarathustra. IDNLIU.
Milum.
The glorious lamp of heaven, the Sun,
The higher he's a-getting,
The sooner will his race be run
All those thes in there, I withdraw my contention that ye was the.
Gather ye mileage from UCLA
While money's still a-flowin'.
And business lunch reimbursement to-day;
To-morrow you'll be goin'.
.....-- Jim Harrick
It's like the carol, "God rest ye merry gentlemen" .. which, when correctly sung is "God rest ye merry (pause) gentlemen."
Obvious that ye is you - to me at least, how 'bout ye?
Or are ye of little faith in my deduction?
In reply to:
gather you rosebuds while you may
not sure if you're being facetious or not, tsuwm...
not
God rest ye merry gentlemen
I'll go along with the pause between merry and gentlemen but I'm sticking with the on this one. Rest you merry? Does that mean something?
God rest the merry, gentlemen.
God grant rest to those who are merry.
God rest ye merry gentlemen, / Let nothing you dismay.Suggesting that ye = you. Would be most odd if ye = the.
I'll go along with the pause between merry and gentlemen.Nah. Put the pause before merry, not after. Thus, merry gentlemen is an appostive phrase for and following ye/you.
Edit: a google search for
"God rest ye merry gentlemen" reveals that it appears usually with no comma at all; fairly often with a comma after
merry (wow's reading); and once in a while with a comma before
merry (my reading):
http://www.pdinfo.com/list/chrissng.htm[/.url], citing 1827
[url]www.geocities.com/stephen_crane_us/godrest.html (story by Stephan Crane, 1899)
Occcasionally "you", but never "the", is substitituted for "ye".
http://ww.highlandpublishing.com/Highland_Records_%C4/Albums%20%C4/Highland_Records_204.html:
Apparently the words were written first, their earliest appearance in the Roxburghe Collection III, about 1770. The original melody can be found in Christmas Carols Ancient and Modern, by William Sandys (London, 1833). The melody that we know, along with the current words, appear in Facetiae and Miscellanies, by William Hone, published in London in 1827. As James Fuld points out, the title can be interpreted to mean "God keep you, merry gentlemen" or "God keep you merry, gentlemen."
"gather you" appears to be an anastrophic imperative, similar to a french construction like gather-you. i don't believe the intended meaning of the line was to tell us to hoard or gather the rosebuds that already belong to us, as would be the translation of "gather your rosebuds", but rather a suggestion that we go out and gather these metaphorical rosebuds from outside sources. hrm, i'm having trouble expressing my thoughts here, but it makes perfect sense to me
and to me, cara. But I also think it’s even more elaborate than you allow, tsuwm. Herrick was using a deliberate pun in his use of ‘may’: both the transitive verb of permissive ‘may’, and the intransitive verb of ‘to may’, which meant gathering flowers and woodland garlands for the may ceremonies (which I think was, er, rooted in early pagan celebration of the conquest of winter – the English tradition includes the May Queen, the Maypole, and the Mayfair which gave its name to a region of London). There was probably also a mildly scabrous allusion to 'gathering the buds' of ‘may’ which was also a synonym for maid or the virgin of the addressees of its anastrophic form…. back to fertility rites!
THE MOST AUDACIOUS EXULTATION IN THE IMPERATIVE EVER SPOKEN BY MORTAL MAN.
AWAKE! THOU GREAT STAR. WHAT WOULD THY GLORY BE IF THOU HAD NOT THOSE UPON WHOM THOU
SHINIETH!
-----------------------------------------------
And perhaps the most definitively human: Rage, Rage, against the dying of the light.
Dylan Thomas
Anastrophe aside, maverick
, thank you so much for the double meaning of "may"! That had never occurred to me. I am counting the days in this snowy land until it's time to go a-Maying.
maverick , thank you so much for the double meaning of "may"May I add more may meanings? May Day, the international distress call, is really the French "M'aidez," or "Help me!" (Hey, that fits the original thread!) Then there's the Maytag repairman. When somebody shouts "Maytag" in German, he goes to a festival; when he does it in French, he goes to work!
Geoff the washed up
Let me call you Sweetheart!
My curiosity aroused, I've been searching through my print anthologies in an attempt to find the earliest recorded use of ye in any form. There is, of course, that long period of early New England dialect where ye was used most lavishly as recorded in (among other works) Melville's Moby Dick and O'Neill's play Desire Under the Elms. Good colloquial examples are available in both these works. (I'm surprised wow and Dr. Bill haven't chimed-in here). Also, there are many examples of ye's use as "the" in titles like "Ye Olde Tin Shoppe," etc. So far I have these early examples (and, of course, the famous town crier's call, "Hear ye! Hear ye!").
an excerpt from the poem WISHES, TO HIS (SUPPOSED) MISTRESS
by Richard Crashaw (1613-1649)
"Meet you her, my wishes,
Bespeak her to my blisses,
And be ye called my absent kisses."
An earlier example comes from the 1st verse of an anonymous song/ballad attributed to the ancient roving bards (circa the year 1000?...pre-dating Chaucer, anyway):
TOM O'BEDLAM'S SONG
"From the hag and hungry goblin
That into rags would rend ye,
And the spirit that stands by the naked man
In the book of moons, defend ye,
That of your five sound senses
You never be forsaken,
Nor wander from yourselves with Tom,
Abroad to beg your bacon."
There is also the Irish ballad, "Johnny, We Hardly Knew Ye."
But, by far, the most curious and intriguing specimen comes from ol' Rabbie Burns (1759-1796),
SONG: GREEN GROW THE RASHES
5th Verse
"For you sae douce, ye sneer at this;
Ye're nought but senseless asses, O;
The wisest man the warl' e'er saw,
He dearly loved the lasses, O."
warl': world
Note Burns uses ye in the same sentence as you, and then again in contraction form!
Robert Herrick's is, of course, another of the earliest examples.
If anyone can figure out the pattern to all these interchangeable-seeming YEs and YOUs
please ring in!
So far no YEs in any form in Chaucer, Skelton, or Spenser...but that could be due to translation from olde and middle English.
If anyone wants or thinks we should take this to a new thread for further discussion, I'd be glad to paste it over.
The only thing that comes to mind that even remotely resembles "ye" for anything other than "you" or "your" is "yea" as in "Yea, though I walk in the Valley of the Shadow of Death..." but that's altogether different.
I wonder whether the confusion may have errupted over "ye" being the same as "thee"--and then consequently confused with "ye" for "the"? Just a theory here.
WW
"ye" being the same as "thee"
Yeeahbut© ye is nominative; thee is dative/accusative.
Yeeahbut© ye is nominative; thee is dative/accusative.
Soooooo. Ye may get you elected. Thee may get you imprisoned for a certain length of time?
BTW, ye must also be vocative. Hear ye!
Enough of these serious techicalities. Back to good old silliness!
"Hail, Freedonia!" sang the Marx Brothers, spooneristically.
Walk on by! [falling tear e-]
Try to see it my way. [Beatles]
Try to see it your way. [Beatles again]
Just walk away, Renee... [drawing a blank on group e-]
Meet me on South Street, oh, yeah, hurry on down! [ditto to above e-]
Just walk away, Renee... [drawing a blank on group e-]
The Cowsils
Go Rest High On That Mountain I love Vince Gill's voice!
"Go Tell It On The Mountain!"
"Hark! The Herald Angels Sing!"
(I often hear this abbreviated as "Hark the Herald." It's convenient, but grammatically, it bugs me...)
California Dreamin' (The Mamas and the Papas)
Listen to the Music (The Doobie Brothers)
I Honestly Love You (Olivia Newton John)
I Honestly Love You (Peter Allen)
"I Just Want to Celebrate!" (Rare Earth)
"It's A Beautiful Mornin'!"... (The Young Rascals)
"Dance to the Music!" (Sly & the Family Stone)
"Love the One You're With!" (Stephen Stills)
"You Made Me So Very Happy!" (Blood, Sweat, & Tears)
"Make Me Smile!" (Chicago)
"A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall!" (Bob Dylan)
whoops! where'd that come that from?
Summer Breeze (Seals and Croft)
Ventura Highway (America)
Listen to the Lions (Van Morrison)
1. "exault" seems to be trade name of a security firm.
2. Faldage said "ye" is "thee", but didn't make it clear that they are pronounced the same. Which I confess I learned more recently than I like to admit.
Just a little observation:
There's a lot on this thread that sure ain't imperative.
Me.
Faldage said "ye" is "thee", but didn't make it clear that they are pronounced the same. Which I confess I learned more recently than I like to admit.
A) I said nothing of the sort. What I said was:
Yeeahbut© ye is nominative; thee is dative/accusative.
2) I said nothing of the sort. I said ye is the but that was a whole nother ye.