tsuwm over in Q & A,posted about turkey's-- had me thinking about all the miss named things we have in english.
Turkey's (the bird) got there name in europe-- where all new and exotic things were associated with Turkey, the country. No matter were things might have originated, Turkey was often the last port of call, before western europe, so Turkey became the place of exotic things. some others include:
Turkey red-- a dye
turkish taffy-- a fruit candy
turkish toweling-- fabric
but there are many other things that inherit names from far away places that have nothing to do with there origins.. an other example is the all purpose excuse for bad language is "please excuse my french".
can you think of other things with place names that have nothing to do with what they are named for?
French letters.
English muffins.
Dutch treats.
Irish mail (only fairly certain on this one!)
Pennsylvania Dutch.
Mexican standoff.
Long Island Iced tea
Ted-- great list-- are there trends?
Turkey for exotic stuff--
French for sexy stuff- (french letters, french kisses)
english for food stuff- (English tea, english muffins)
dutch--the poor dutch, end up as cheap and drunken--Dutch courage=a stiff drink, dutch treat
chinese wall-- used as a legal term.. to show a complete division..
Quite old - aircraft "Chinese three point landing" - nose and two wheels.
Italian spaghetti; though British folks seem to call this spaghetti Bolognese, I think--I have no idea of how accurate that might be.
Polish sausage?
Vienna sausages? [barf e]
You do learn something every day: I tried Googling to see if the Australian Crawl (the swimming stroke) was conceived in Australia, and found that there is or was a rock band of that name; portrayed as fun-loving, sun-worshipping, playboy musicians radiating a healthy aura and rebellious charm...
I understand that in many languages, a slang term for venereal disease refers to a despised neighboring country. E.g. (hypothetically), the french referring to it as "German disease".
From the subject line -- all I can think of now is Dairy Queen.
(singing) From the land of Dairy Queen....we treat you right!
been a lonnnnnnng day........
What comes from The Land of Sky Blue Waters?
What comes from the Land of Sky Blue Waters?
Not what, but who? Tsuwm, of course.
About Egyptian cotton:
" Here's a surprise to many The high-quality Egyptian cotton that is so
popular the world over was not even available in pharonic times. It was
only until the Christian period that
cotton trees growing half-wild in Nubia
(southern Egypt) started being used. And finally, in the 19th century, an
American variety of cotton started flourishing in Egypt. So what did the ancient
Egyptians wear? Linen. Most everything men, women and children wore was
made from linen. In fact, the ancient Egyptians believed the Gods wore linen."
http://www.egyptmonth.com/mag01012001/...so what in Sam's Hill is a "cotton tree"? All the cotton in my neck of the woods looks like a scrawny bush, at best, and really not much of a bush either. Would these scrawny plants grow into trees?
Bush regards,
WW
Spanish windlass: a crude way of tightening a loop of rope passed around two fixed points, by inserting a rod between the ropes and turning it end over end so that the ropes are twisted tight. This is a jury-rig used only temporarily. But it can also be used as an emergency tourniquet to stop arterial bleeding.
"Most everything men, women and children wore was made from linen. In fact, the ancient Egyptians believed the Gods wore linen."
I'll bet they would have preferred cotton if they had it. Linen can be very durable, but I have read that one of the worst torments the soldiers at Valley Forge had to endure was linen underwear that was horribly abrasive. I don't know of anything that should have made the home made linen garments of Revolutionary times inferior to what the Egyptians made.
"Next to myself, I like Hanes best."
And, speaking of Spanish windlass (new term for me, thanks, wwh), what about Spanish moss? Does it grow in Spain? I think it's a member of the pineapple family, by the way, if memory serves me well.
And here's a tangent: One of the most memorable table settings I've seen included silver candlelabra entwined at the base with Spanish moss. Wonder whether the design of the twisting was that of a Spanish windlass? Certainly windlessness was desired there to keep the candles glowing! (Just kidding here.)
Bright regards,
WaxWind
Dear WW: Spanish Moss: Its Nature, History and Uses
... to which the genus Sphagnum (mosses that form peat) belongs. Spanish Moss and the
pineapple (Ananas comosus) belong to division Magnoliophyta , class Liliopsida ...
http://www.co.beaufort.sc.us/bftlib/spanish.htm
interesitng WW-- my understanding about cotton was that is was native to china (once saw an interesting print-- made in england that featured "cotton bushes"-- they were envisioned as "mutton trees" --little sheep caught in a bush!)
cotton might not have been grown in ancient egypt, but trade existed... small amounts of silk fibers have been found in tombs, as well as cotton. trade caravans existed , and trade goods from china made it to the near east and europe from very early on.
and since cotton seeds are so hard to remove from the raw fiber, i suspect some seeds ended up getting transported to mid east-- so there is no telling when cotton first started to grow in the area.
and like many wild plants, the varieties we see today, are the most commercial viable.. there might well be some form of periennial cotton that grows in small trees.. but i suspect its it not the most productive variety.
Here's my list of misnamed words and phrases what have nothin ta do with their origin:
Maine Frame
Thai Breaker
Tibetan Horses
Colombo
Hungary Heart
Russian Home
Czech Shirt
Karachi Chop
Bonnbonn
College Liberian
Greece Lightning
Frankfurt - Tedfurst
Must Finnish Up now but there's plenty more where they came from.
Be seein ya
Must read more about the uses of Spanish moss! I've only seen it used, as described above, on the candelabra!
Now cotton trees--those I would enjoy seeing in any form, scraggly or not!
Finally, I have a pet peeve when it comes to trees, and, could I join one society, it would be to the destruction of these trees. They are the ailanthus: The so-called "Tree of Heaven," which, to my mind, is the "Tree of Hell." It's worse than cudzu. It's growing all up around Rt. 81 up through Pennsylvania and all down into Virginia. Huge copses of it are taking over the natural woodlands. It appears a bit like hickories in that it has a compound leaf. But it is inexorable in its growth pattern. Where redbuds and dogwoods should be growing along the woods, there are the many upshoots of damned ailanthus. It's been naturalized for a long time, often seen sprotting up through sidewalks in cities. It propogates itself like mad. I see into the future in which the great American woods are nothing but a tent of this ailanthus.
Again, if anyone knows of a society that works against the Tree of Hell(I'm not a joiner of societies by disposition, but here I cross the line), please let me know here or in a PM.
Thoroughly disgustreed,
WailingWin
Good stuff, Gallant Ted. And you're right on every example: the names have nothing to do with the origins.
Quite germane on your part.
Meanwhile, I'd like to suggest (again) that if anyone wants to discuss things other than words in great detail, I have a group of bookmarks that lead to forums on plants, wildlife, child rearing, cooking, etc. Happy to furnish upon request (though I won't be around much till next week).
Well, Annastrophic, let me see if I understand your meaning. You don't want any of us talking about anything fun and interesting in the week you'll be gone. Just words. Nuttin' but words.
I tried posting the url's but they didn't go to the right pages
Anna, I was just trying to show that you, too, have posted your share of non-word oriented posts. Cut the rest a little slack, why don't you?
The two URLs that I tried to post were for "Mav's Legs" under Q and A-wordless post under the heading ANIMAL SAFARI.
And "sadder, butweiser" under Wordplay and fun where
under the heading of TMI appeared.
So. Let he/she who is without sin cast the first stone.
This is WORDPLAY AND FUN after all.
thousand island dressing?
stales
Bombay duck? (Well it may be from Bombay - but it ain't a bird)
stales
Japanese riding boots
(Aussie slang for thongs, jandals, flip flops - whatever you like to call them)
stales
It's Greek to me!
Russian roulette
Welsh on a bet (all my life I thought this was "welch," "welched," and "welcher" until we had that PC hub-bub when Clinton said it from our newly hypenated Welsh-Americans)
In a New York minute
makes no sense at all, right of troy?Non-Word Post...wait a minute ...we can't post
without words, can we? So how can we have a Non-Word Post?
although the amazing Faldage has pulled it off a couple of times Who's on first...What's on second... I Don't Know's on third....
It's Greek to me!
Russian roulette
Welsh on a bet (all my life I thought this was "welch," "welched," and "welcher" until we had that PC hub-bub when Clinton said it from our newly hypenated Welsh-Americans)
In a New York minute
makes no sense at all, right of troy?Non-Word Post...wait a minute ...we can't post
without words, can we? So how can we have a Non-Word Post?
although the amazing Faldage has pulled it off a couple of times Who's on first...What's on second... I Don't Know's on third....
Can you say, "in great detail"?
Sure you can.
Sky Blue Waters
Hamms Beer, the Beer refreshing...
And other jingles which I cannot remember, but the beer was not so great.
1. Is Hane Spanish for Jane?
2. And you like Hane's best WHAT next to yourself?
Hust asking.
a danish (breakfast pastry)
roman meal (brand of bread
swiss cocoa (from the cocoa trees that grow in the alps no doubt!)
and not to be left out German chocolate.. (in a cake, this includes coconut -- an other delicacy from the alps! )
did we get candian bacon? (what do you candians call salted, smoked pork loin?)
irish potatoes (native to the andies..)
london broil --
NY steak
Hamburger's ( or the alternate --Aaagh! how do you spell Salsboughy? )
in sewing a double seam, called a French seam.
german measles
of Troy: Your servings were well done!
Swiss steak: something my Aunt Dale mastered (steak, green peppers, onion, tomato sauce--what's Swiss about this?)
And chop suey (Chinese inferred) isn't Chinese, or so I understand...
brussel sprouts
german shepherds?
We call 'em brussels sprouts here. Is that incorrect? (If you pretend you're a giant eating cabbages whole, they're a lot more fun....)
Hot as Dutch love.
And don't tell me it comes from the alcoves sleeping spaces built over ovens ... I'd rather have the illusion!
(If you pretend you're a giant eating cabbages whole, they're a lot more fun....)And if you have a peg on your nose ...
They should probably be called "euros sprouts" these days to be PC. And there'll be a host of regulations about growing them, keeping them, selling them, buying them and preparing them ...
Re Brussels sprouts: One bit of Michigan lore my wife taught me was that Brussels sprouts are much nicer after the first frost. I have no idea why that is so, but on my Scout's honor it is true.
2. And you like Hane's best WHAT next to yourself?
Dear TEd: If I told you, it would upset Faldage.
Spanish Harlem
Swedish meatballs (not
ever to be confused with Norwegian meatballs)
Tasmanian Devil
---------------
I'd imagine they'd advertize Hamms in OZ as "from the Land down under"
Has anyone mentioned Hungarian goulash? Yecch!
Dear WW: your Hungarian goulash must have been made from the wrong kind of galoshes.
Dear TEd: I never had a girlfriend named Hane. But I had one named Juana. She was wonderful. Every time I said "Dia Juana" She said "Si." And you should have seen what I saw.
Hi, Faldage.
Dear wwh: That's it! I forgot to add the galoshes to the goulash! Back to the kitchen, my nemesis, by the way...
Dub
This reminds me of an old "riddle" (or what ever it *should be called
)...
Q - How do you get out of a room that has no doors and no windows, and has 2 mirrors and a table in it as furnishings?
A - Look in the mirrors and see what you saw. Take the saw and cut the table in half, and since two halves make a whole you can climb out the hole.
musick, our non-native-English speakers will love that one.
And only you could get INto a room with no doors or windows, in the first place!
Sorry to stop the music musick - but Tasmanian Devils DO come from Tasmania - and Tasmania alone.
stales
but Tasmanian Devils DO come from Tasmania - and Tasmania alone. Well, not quite, stales...theres's a Tas that hails from the Warner Bros. Cartoon Studios!
By the sound of its name, it'd be fair to assume that broccoli was Italian.
It ain't - it's Chinese.
stales
re Tassie Devils
Aw come on WO'N, you're stretching it a bit here. That's the same as saying things like dalmatians, lions, large eared elephants, cuddly toys (eg Winnie and Piglet), Muggles and vintage flying cars also come from Hollywood.
Putting this to one side, do you remember the first WB cartoon in which Tas appeared? I recollect that he was in a box on a wharf - having been shipped there from Australia. Along with a kangaroo I think.
Didn't we have a discussion like this over Amerigo Vespucci's name?
stales
"Kiwi" fruit!
And the near destruction of the American elm--hasn't it been by Dutch elm disease? I could be manged here...
Curious,
DendroDub
By the sound of its name, it'd be fair to assume that broccoli was Italian.
It ain't - it's Chinese.
IT IS Italian !!!!! I mean, the green vegetables.
Broccoli is plural, from broccolo. By extension, broccolo means also a very stupid person.
Hi, E, you will like this: I just checked the dictionary, and it looks like the Italian word for head is testa. Do you-all ever call anyone "broccolo-testa"? My daughter and her friends at school used to say this one boy was a "broccoli-head", because of his odd hairstyle (temporary, thank goodness): he had it tied up in these little knots all over his head. Should I tell her they were calling him stupid?
Actually, he's not--he won a place in an international band competition, and got to go to Europe this summer.
stales and emanuela,
Maybe Marco Polo brought it back to Italy and now most of the western world uses the Italian name for the vegetable native to China.
(as for 'broccolo' meaning a stupid person, thanks for that, emanuela!
I love learning slang in other languages)
dutch elm disease was first identified in holland.. even if it didn't originate there... so
but Vienna finger cookies..
and is prussian blue from Prussia?
dutch tulips (tulips name come from the idea that the flowers looked like turban..) and the plants original came from Turkey
and i was wondering.. does any other language have the some problem we have in english with Holland? also commonly known at ther Neatherlands, but the inhabitants are routinely called Dutch!
of Troy... The turbans and the tulips curiously bring us around full circle to your opening post.
That said, what does the word "tulip" have to do with "turban"?
I would like to add that for the longest time I thought paisley came from some exotic locale like Turkey or Indian or Pakistan. I was astonished to learn that paisley was a pattern that came out of Scotland----so un-plaid!!
WW
The word tulip is from the turkish tulbent--the turkish word for turban..
so now, faldage-- let me know: is Taliban from turban too, or is from an entirely different root, and related to talisman.. ( from greek for consecrated?) since some weeks past you pointed out "some of us even know what taliban means..." i suspect the latter...
and while we are in the general neighborhood.. Jerusalem Artichokes any one?
Thanks, of Troy, for tulbent.
I found this on One Look:
"turban
a type of headdress formed by wrapping a long cloth sash around the head or a cap and which is worn especially by Muslim and Sikh men.
Dutch: tulband (de)" [Hmmm...a Dutch tulband is a turban.]
...that's getting closer to Taliban!
WW
Well, there's the Kiwis from NZ, the Septics from the US and those Pommy b*****ds from England, but that wasn't really what you meant, was it?
And just a F-everyones-I, Holland refers to two of the coastal provinces, North and South Holland. The name of the country is the Netherlands.
is Taliban from turban too, or is from an entirely different root, and related to talisman.. ( from greek for consecrated?)
No. It means student. It comes from a Farsi root with a Pashto suffix, if memory serves. William Safire covered it in his NYTimes magazine column some time ago, back in September (was it that long ago? one of the three signs)
Yes, doc, on a map its the Netherlands, but here in NY, Holland would be used interchangible.. most NY's would know the "Holland-American Lines" (do they still exist? their name remains on piers..) and the Holland tunnel.. and
Holland show up in local brands (Holland Farms is big dairy cooportive, so is associated with milk, cheese, ice cream)
given that only 7 people in all of the US know geography,
they would have trouble finding it on a map, but the would tell you the Dutch lived there.. (complete with wooden shoes!, and the little boy who put his finger in the dike was from there..)
and
Pommy b*****ds, is definately an down under expression.. I don't know what they are called elsewhere, but in my childhood they where always
Bloody Brits-- followed closely by a warning
Language!- with the 'Mind Your' intro to be understood.
and where did
the Septics from the US come from... i have never heard that one before!
and the childrens game
Chinese Jump-rope
In reply to:
and where did the Septics from the US come from... i have never heard that one before!
Septic (tank)s = Yanks.
Well, you did ask.
Bingley
Howye
Howabout - France is Baken - is that wordy of the list?
GT
It's good ta see yew *guys diggin' six degrees deep intada archives, especially since yer pullin' some of my gems owta da land down under{..wa-a-ter..}Hi, TEd
Guinea worm is capitalized 'cuz it comes from that region, but howabowda 'guinea pig'?
or a 'guinea fowl' -- and the same word is used as slur term for italians (guineas). (why? i don't know.. see end)
about five years ago, there was a big effort (successful, too) to change the name of "Guinea Woods Road" in the Town of Westbury, NY since is was percieved to be an ethnic slur.
an investigation unearth that the road was name for the guinea fowl that used to be common there abouts. but the the road name was changed.
an other slur name for italian is Wops. allegedly, this come from the imigration of Sicilians who had moved to Naples, and where later deported from Naples. (after the unification of italy in the 1860's) not wanting to return to Sicily, they came to US-- but they had no passports or papers.. so there immigration forms where stamped WOP (with out papers)