well, pilobolus is a type of fungi (fun guy?) which lives in cow dung...

...and then there's this:
http://www.artsandlectures.ucsb.edu/archive/2000-2001/perform/pilobolus.htm

Dear tsuwm: I spent almost an hour searching but did not guess the right letters. Thanks for that link. Imagine the will power required not to become ithyphallic. Like the one about the guy who got expelled from the nudist colony, because when playing leapfrog, he balked.

Dear WW: I was not complaining about your having been unable to give correct spelling. Half the fun of the board is in improving search capabilities. I was merely giving tsuwm well deserved accolade for his superior search talents.

Tut,tut! WW. "Popping up" indeed!

well at least its not a hippoithyphallic! i don't think we could handle that!

In reply to:

---

well at least its not a hippoithyphallic! i don't think we could handle that.

---

I know your mother handled an ithyphallic swan, but I think you should expunge all thoughts of handling ithyphallic hippos from your mind
Bingley

Animal Safari?

So good.

Interesting about "pilobolus" projecting its spores. I used to assist a mycologist, and it is a fascinating field, that was neglected for many years, until a famous athlete died mysteriously of a fungal disease.
Here is a URL with action diagram of spores being projected. But I can't understand choosing it as name for a dance group.

http://www.herb.lsa.umich.edu/Kidpage/pilobfct.htm

>But I can't understand choosing it as name for a dance group.

weren't you paying attention, bill? they're highly unusual.

of troy says well at least its not a hippoithyphallic!
bingley points out: I know your mother handled an ithyphallic swan, but I think you should expunge all thoughts of handling ithyphallic hippos from your mind

Dear helen, you previous discussions of hippi had concerned the tuti-clad hippi in the movie Fantasia. That is, you formerly ad-dressed hippi who were explicitly female, but you now contemplate hippi who are -- ahem -- most "explicitly" male.

[i]Italics[/i]

Thank you, but i will leave the care and handling of ithyphallic hippos to Russian empresses

rumor has it Catherine the great's taste ran to handling ithyphallic hippo's (horses, that is.)

Dear tsuwm: Since pilobolus (spear thrower?) seems to mean in the case of the fungus expelling the products of conception as a projectile, I wonder how that would be choreographed.

>Since pilobolus seems to mean expelling the products of conception as a projectile, I wonder how that would be choreographed.

okay, bill, here's another way of approaching this: since the pilobolus has a pod, or cluster, or glob of spores which is ejected from the 'mother' plant, perphaps this could be looked at as a group which, although the individuals have strayed far from their roots, hangs together in the attempt to renew their art.

Helen of Troy, whose mother loved a swan, cites Catherine the Great's taste for horses
You can Leda horse to Catherine, but you can't make him ... well, perhaps you can!
but surely there is no Trojan Horse

excuse me, but ..Helen of Troy, whose mother loved a swan,

as i heard the story, it was not a case of consentual sex.. the, um, swan, might have been a god, but he was also a dog.. and it was rape.

I had two complaints that while we may say "it was not a case of consensual sex" we may not use the rxxx word.

Faldage: that means you too.
Keiva: You also.

incidentally all of the classic paintings of the event have smiles on Leda's face. Why wasn't she looking upset?

when rape is inevitable

That's easy for you to say.

Dr. bill i hope you have a good, sturdy hard hat.. i think a ton or two of bricks are about to fall..

since this thread is light hearted, i will PM my brick bat or two or a thousand..
thank you, faldage-- obviously, no fool are you!

You're welcome, Helen. I find that "advice" to be extremely objectionable.

And a Fool need not be a fool

if ever a post begged deleting...

it was not a case of consentual sex.. the, um, swan, might have been a god, but he was also a dog.. and it was rape.
the osamania question?

-----

it was rape There seem to be variations of the legend -- or of its interpretation. Contrast:

http://www.artfromgreece.com/stories/v29.html: Zeus, master of disguise when it came to seducing women, changed himself into a magnificent swan, which Leda quickly fell in love with.
http://www.wesleyan.edu/col/comps/leda3.htm: W.B.YEATS "Leda and the Swan": based on mythical story of Zeus taking the form of a swan, raping Leda
(the Yeats poem itself appears at http://www.princeton.edu/~rhwebb/leda.html)

Keiva-- Leda saw a beautiful swan.. It was majestic, and didn't frighten her. she had been persued by Zeus, but had more or less rejected him. she was naked, and bathing (in the sense of washing, not swimming. getting ready for her marriage. she was a virgin.. see didn't see the swan as threat, she felt free to admire it.

of course, as we now know, it wasn't a swan, it was more like a wolf in sheeps clothing. it was a disguise to get past her defenses. and one he did, he raped her. she didn't fall in love with Zeus. okay, maybe she wasn't the smarted one in the class, Zeus was known for these kind of tricks, but the lady had told him No.. and he didn't understand it. N!O! No! there is only one way to interpt NO.
do we need a thread on the meaning of word NO?

mind you, i am not against the story, or the poems, or the imagery. but part of the story is, Leda said no, and Zeus did it anyway. sure it was a different culture, and different time, but rape was recognized. (albeit, sometimes as more damaging to a man, since it rob him of certainty of paternity, but it was recognized, and not considered anything praise worthy. Zeus might be able to get away with it.. but no mere mortal could!

From Atomica:

rape
n.
1. The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse.
2. The act of seizing and carrying off by force; abduction.
3. Abusive or improper treatment; violation: a rape of justice.

I thought that the Rape of Leda used the second sense of "rape" above. Or was that just for the sanitized myths I read as a little girl?

Remember the high expectations of the citizen band radios of the sixties? Remember how "Hey Goodbuddy what's your twenty, a Smokie's a smoking at two-double-two." quickly became, "So grab fat Mabel and put her on the table and put the petal to the metal and put your stick to the floor." What say, Movergrovers,come on?
Is it true, Goodbuddies, that Rednecks are we all?

Helen, I am not disputing that there is a (vast) difference between rape and seduction. My point is simply that the legend is differently interpreted: sometimes as rape (e.g., the Yeats poem), and sometimes as seduction.

Interestingly, most googled sites refer to it as "seduction". And where the myth is rendered in painting or sculpture, Leda often appears to be a, shall we say, willing participant. It is unclear whether Leda had come to realize as of the "moment of truth" that her lover was in fact Zeus in swan form, rather than a true swan.
http://www.magna.com.au/~pyb/pcres/focus/zeus.htm
It would be interesting to try to establish whether the "rape" interpretation pre-dates the Yates poem.

IMHO, one detail of the legend is psychologically inconsistent with the "rape" interpretation. The detail is noted as follows in
http://www.thanasis.com/mythman/mnov99.html: How can I put this delicately? Leda, apparently not entirely satisfied with Zeus'...er...swan song, had also lain with her husband Tyndareus that night, so the actual parentage of Helen, Castor, Polydeuces and Clytaemnestra was a tad suspect...My uncle Homer insisted that Helen alone was a daughter of Zeus
It seems to me highly unlikely that a woman, if raped, would later have "lain with her husband" that very night.

In the course of googling the above, I found that many satellites of the planet Jupiter were named after Zeus' love interests. Those I can readily identify are boldfaced below (* indicating male).
Jupiter has 16 satellites: Adrastea, Amalthea, Ananke, Callisto, Carme, Elara, Europa, Ganymede*, Himalia, Io, Leda, Lysithea, Metis, Pasiphae, Sinope and Thebe.

Question: Were others so named as well?

At least one satellite is an interesting contrast: Ananke is the powerful deity that rules compulsion, constraint, restraint, or coercion, and presides over all forms of slavery and bonds
http://hsa.brown.edu/~maicar/Ananke.html

The difference between Rxxx and Romance is just a question of salesmanship. (From a college humor mag.)
I do not necessarily share sentiments of allegedly humorous quotes I post.

The philosopher to daughter bit was published in Reader's Digest fifty years ago. I have heard more than a few lectures on rxxx. There is a very wide spectrum. With a kook, resistance may be fatal. For an impetuous youth, a martial arts blow to family jewels may be appropriate.And I suspect the ladies who protested have an emotional problem not necessarily shared by rest of feminine participants.

Dear Keiva: that mythology URL was sensational. I very much enjoyed it, and award you the palm for best URL of the month.

I trust that in this particular case dr. bill does not agree with (indeed violently disagrees with) said sentiment, and quotes it merely for the allegedly-humorous expression thereof.

I would draw your attentions to the fact that the word "rape" is often not meant in the sense of violent, non-consensual intercourse. It is often a shortened form of "rapine" as in rape and pillage. This had nothing to do, at least directly, with the other meaning of rape, although it probably comes from the same roots and is an extension of the original meaning.

Help, Joe Friday! You have better references that I do.

you rang? there are 6 nouns, 3 verbs and an adjective, all homonyms of rape. but who's counting? our rape and rapine are cognates of the L. rapere, but who cares? let the muses have their way with us:

The act of taking anything by force; violent seizure (of goods), robbery.
When Kings their Crowns without Consent obtain, 'Tis all a mighty Rape, and not a Reign. [De Foe]

The Rape of the Lock, by Pope

The act of carrying away a person, esp. a woman, by force.
Rape call you it... to cease [seize] my owne, My true betrothed Love. [WS]

We need not refer to the rape of the Sabines. [Scott, Rob Roy]

Violation or ravishing of a woman. Also, in mod. usage, sexual assault upon a man.
This... treates of Tereus treason and his rape, And rape I feare was roote of thine annoy. [WS]

transf. and fig.
Thou hast... done a rape Upon the maiden vertue of the Crowne. [WS]

-joe (a rape is a turnip) friday

>So you see the sort of rape depends on what you pay

yup, a turnip.

">So you see the sort of rape depends on what you pay"

As in tale of bimbo told her ten dollar bill was counterfeit, and yelled "I've been rxxxd!

As a jest, we had a thread about "are radishes rootish?" We used to have a Hereford bull that loved huge turnips. And Brussels sprouts. Turnips used to be big deal as cattle feed in UK, may still be. Part of the old crop rotation.

Ta, joesy-woesy. You commented, inter alia Violation or ravishing of a woman. Also, in mod. usage, sexual assault upon a man.

I remember there was a rape case in New Zealand a few years ago where three women were accused of raping a man. Or sexual assault, anyway. It was revenge - the guy had been accused of raping someone but had been found not guilty, presumably on some technicality. I can't remember the outcome of the second court case, but the attack seemed pretty vicious at the time!

vegitable rape is a green leaved plant with small edible buds-- it sort of looks like an anorexic broccoli, to which it is related, as are turnips, cabbages, and brussel sprouts. all of them are crucifer plants.. the leaves grow in pairs, on opposite sides of the stem, and a set of 2 (4 leaves) will form a cross or + pattern. (in NY is often called broccoli rabe-- its italian name.)

and since you live a more country life style than i do, do you still call garlic ramp? or do you jackie? it is a word i have only encountered in reading. i have never met any one who used it.

(and primarily grown up in canada, there is a food crop called rape seed, the plant is inedable, the yeilds canola oil. )

Not a food thread-- i want to know what word/s are used where for some items.. (yeah, i know the item are food.) but this thread was vering to hurt feelings.. and it was partly my fault.

dear of troy: you taught me a new word. Dictionary says ramp is a wild leek. When I worked in foundry the molders used to bring me patterns to mend. Their breath was rampantly malodorous of home-made wine,garlic, and caries. (;Yeah, I know that's a different ramp.)

linking food, words, and my interest in Chicago history:
The name "Chicago" is the local indian word for a plant variously translated as "wild onion" or "wild garlic", the latter being (I believe) more precise.

(So technically we are not "The Windy City", but rather either "The City of Bad Breath" or "The Stinky City". )

Dr. bill, or any one who is not a hobbled as i am on weekend with AOL, and a slow connections, perhaps you could look up ramp on line. it seem to have a short trail back to an IE root, and could like Gen, be one of those interesting words we have stumbled across here.

and WW-- check out Holiday word thread, and tell us what kind of turnips you have.. yellow, or white.. small or large.

Dear Keiva: You have been listening to too many local boosters. I read a book by an expert on Indian lore, who said "Chicago" meant "Place of Skunks". And to take the curse off that, I have many pleasant memories of Chicago. In WWII Chicago had recreation facilities for us dogfaces that few other cities did.

I have many pleasant memories of Chicago. In WWII Chicago had recreation facilities for us dogfaces that few other cities did.

Now, was that a daytime tour of the meat packing houses and a nighttime tour of the cathouses (or catteries to cross-thread just a tad), Dr Bill? And were you a sought-after or a sort-of patron?

dear dr. bill: there's an expert for everything! My source:
"The name Chicago is derived from the local Indian word Chicagoua for the native garlic plant (not onion) Allium tricoccum." Copyrighted paper by John F. Swenson (adapting prior paper), published in Early Chicago, Danckers & Meredith (2000), p. 377 ff. See penultimate entry at:
http://www.northbranchrestoration.org/art0199b.htm

DEar WW: I have seen a lot of ads for unusual dormitory delights, but never one for a rape bed.

HoT

The ramp I am familiar with is a shortened form of rampion. These things are prolific in the Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia, where there is an annual rampion festival. I've never been to one, but they say you can smell it for miles.

The best-in-show award being known as the Champion Rampion?

The stems, when dried and pounded, yield a highly absorbent cotton-like mass. In fact, there is in WV a company that produces a brand of Champion Rampion Tampion. I read about it in Harvard Lampion. Or was it a sanitary nampion?

TEd, though I'd like to clean up your mispronunciations, this is not the sort of subject I'd re-vamp-ya-on.

In reply to:

---

I found that many satellites of the planet Jupiter were named after Zeus' love interests. Those I can readily identify are boldfaced below (* indicating male).
Jupiter has 16 satellites: Adrastea, Amalthea, Ananke, Callisto, Carme, Elara, Europa, Ganymede*, Himalia, Io, Leda, Lysithea, Metis, Pasiphae, Sinope and Thebe.

Question: Were others so named as well?

---

I recognise Almathea. She was a goat who served as Zeus's wetnurse when he was a wee godlet.

Pasiphae was the wife of King Minos of Crete and refused the attentions of one of the gods (Poseidon, I think). She was cursed to fall in love with a bull. In order to handle the ithyphallic bovine she ordered Daedulus to build her a hollow bronze but very sexy cow which she hid in to enjoy the bull's services (Question: Does inducing someone to have sex with you under the impression that you are somebody else count as rape?). The offspring from this irregular union was the Minotaur.

The names Adrastea, Metis, and Thebe ring bells but I can't remember what the stories were.

Bingley

With a kook, resistance may be fatal.

But enjoyment would be impossible.

There is a song from the Carmina Burana called ich was ein chint se wolgetan (http://www.florilegium.org/files/PERFORMANCE-ARTS/songs2-msg.text Search for "chint") which is a tale of rape pure and simple, but most modern renditions seem to treat it as a case of innocent dalliance. It says nothing of the meaning of the song, merely of the lack of sensitivity of the interpreter.

Dear Bingley: thank you for your erudite post. In regard to your query," Does inducing someone to have sex
with you under the impression that you are somebody else count as rape?)." I have a pertinent but sordid anecdote.
The medical laboratory in which I worked in WWII was located in penthouses atop the University of Santo Tomas in Manila. One of the penthouses was assigned to a Military Police unit. One day the CO of that unit showed me some photographs taken by one of his men. The first showed a coyly posing androgynous figure at an angle with clamped thighs concealing genitals. The second showed a furiously scowling effeminate male forced to stand facing forward with feet wide apart, with male genitals in full view.
A black male GI had been solicited for sex by the above individual dressed as a female.The black Sgt. was puzzled by the position of his partner under him, and reached down and found male genitalia that did not belong to him. Violence ensued, and the MP's were called, and the pictures I saw were taken.
So dear Bingley: tell me what charges should have been placed against whom?

from tsuwm's post above

The act of taking anything by force; violent seizure (of goods), robbery
The act of carrying away a person, esp. a woman, by force.
Violation or ravishing of a woman. Also, in mod. usage, sexual assault upon a man.
and from Rapunzel's.
rape
n.
1. The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse.
2. The act of seizing and carrying off by force; abduction.
3. Abusive or improper treatment; violation: a rape of justice.

i will accepted i was part of this thread taking this turn, and did my best to turn it round, and encourage WW with the idea of Rape as food crop, and moved on to Ramp, (which was as noted, dr. bill, a new word for you.)

but now its out of control
Both set of definitions of the act of rape, whether it of land, or law or humans, point out, the rape is violent, assault, by force.

yet, some think are you listening Dr. bill? that this is a subject for joking.
just what do you need? salacious details? date and time and location? Do you think it is okay to joke about an assault that leave your body as a crime scene? a crime that all to often, no matter what the evidence, is impossible to prove.. (she just likes rough sex... she wanted it.. she wasn't a virgin, so maybe she just changed her mind, and so on) a violent assault.. that leaves a woman bruised and bleeding, and at risk for pregnancy and infection.. but hey, lets joke about it! I have seen a lot of ads for unusual dormitory delights, but never one for a rape bed--just who is this supposed to delight? i don't think the majority of the men on this board are violent, or would agree that rape is a delight. do you think they do? do you really think the way to interact with women is with violence? That is close to one of the most insulting phrases i have ever seen posted.

but i guess we women are just too sensitive right? many be we should just put on a veil, and never go out of the house, and pretend not to exist?

Dear of troy: I have no idea how it happened that the "r" word upsets you so much. People joke about the most horrible things, and "r" is just one of them.

Let us simply recall that this thread is under "Wordplay and Fun", and agree that this particular wordplay is no long fun.

In an attempt to redirect it: a prize is hereby offered to whomsoever may first complete the answer to my above inquiry thanks, Bingley! as to the 16 moons of Jupiter. IYTMIWBYAB.

I suppose, Dr., the fault lies with whoever failed to inform the Sgt. that he was not in Kansas any more. Banci (also known as waria, a portmanteau word from the Indonesian words wanita (woman) and pria (man), or wadam, another portmanteau from wanita and Adam) are common in SE Asia. There was a big fuss a couple of years ago when a Thai banci (I forget the Thai word -- something like kaa-phoey meaning ladyboy) became a professional kickboxer and some of the more masculine players refused to play against him/her.

I first came across the word waria when I was on holiday in South Sulawesi and visted the palace of the Sultans of Bone. The guide was explaining (in English) about the position of waria in the old royal court (they formed a priestly class in pre-Islamic times) and I was getting more and more confused thinking he meant warrior.

Bingley

>I have no idea how it happened that the "r" word upsets you so much. People joke about the most horrible things, and "r" is just one of them.

We discussed the list of words that are no longer taboo on British TV. I think what has happened in recent comedy has shown up how silly it is to use the words, regardless of context, as a marker of "bad behaviour", I've said before that for many people here f*** *** for Southern ladies just means "very". Simultaneously, comedians have, in the main, moved away from subject areas which are insulting to the "victims" of the joke, whether because of their race, creed, gender, sexual orientation or disability. Jokes about male violence against women (or the other combinations discussed), like mother-in-law jokes, English, Irishmen and Scotsman jokes are considered to be either a) not funny and b) insulting. So, I'm sorry Bill, Helen is speaking for a large tranche of womankind when she objects to jokes about rape.

I am aware that things are different in the forces, the emergency room and the operating theatre where jokes sometimes help people deal with the real acts of inhumanity that people have to face, just be aware that this board is none of those places and continues to be open to a wide audience, at least some of whom are women.

Adrastea, the distributor of rewards and punishments, was the daughter of Jupiter and Ananke
Amalthea was the nymph who nursed the infant Jupiter with goat's milk.
Ananke was the mother of Adrastea, by Jupiter.
Callisto was a nymph, beloved of Zeus and hated by Hera. Hera changed her into a bear and Zeus then placed her in the sky as the constellation Ursa Major.
Carme was the mother, by Zeus of Britomartis, a Cretan goddess
Elara was the mother by Zeus of the giant Tityus
Europa was a Phoenician princess abducted to Crete by Zeus, who had assumed the form of a white bull, and by him the mother of Minos.
Ganymede was a Trojan boy of great beauty whom Zeus carried away to be cup bearer to the gods
Himalia was a nymph who bore three sons of Zeus (Jupiter).
Io was a maiden who was loved by Zeus (Jupiter) and transformed into a heifer in a vain attempt to hide her from the jealous Hera.
Leda was queen of Sparta and the mother, by Zeus in the form of a swan, of Pollux and Helen of Troy.
Lysithea was a daughter of Oceanus and one of Zeus' lovers
Metis was a Titaness who was the first wife of Zeus (Jupiter).
Lysithea was a daughter of Oceanus and one of Zeus' lovers
Sinope was a woman said to have been unsuccessfully (!) courted by Zeus
Thebe was a nymph, daughter of the river god Asopus.

Edited to add of Thebe:

A Naias daughter of the River Asopos, she was abducted by Zeus to the town of Thebes which was named after her

Leda was queen of Sparta and the mother, by Zeus in the form of a swan, of Pollux and Helen of Troy

But not Castor???

According to legend, since Leda was-involved-in-whatever-activity(ies) OK, Helen?, on on the same day, Zeus *and *also with her (Leda's) husband, there was some uncedrtainty as to parentage. But it was agreed that Helen, at least, was fathered by Zeus.

:Here is a lovely URL to Bullfinch's Mythology. I spent a pleasant hour there. One surprise, is said that at one point Theseus abducted Helen. No mention of misbehaviour towards her, no mention how she got free.
It did mention Castor and Pollux being her brothers. Castor invented a potent laxative, and Pollux was the original polluter.

http://www.bulfinch.org/fables/bull20.html

Madison Avenue was involved. Castor was moved to wheel it out with great fanfare.

>Elara was the mother by Zeus of the giant Tityus

Also known as Anna Nicole Smith

>Io was a maiden who was loved by Zeus (Jupiter) and transformed into a heifer

If heifer I would leave you
It wouldn't be in summer....

I just realized I'm missing one of the sixteen!

No wonder you haven't agreed to BMAB.

I will find the missing lady.

Ted

Pasiphae was the wife of Minos and mother, by a white bull, of the Minotaur.

Dear TEd: Now there's an obstetrical marvel.

When Poseidon sent a bull to Minos he refused to sacrifice it as it
was so beautiful, Poseidon then made Pasiphae fall in love with the bull, the result was the Minotaur.

Re:But it was agreed that Helen, at least, was fathered by Zeus.
yes, i will admit to being a demi god!

TEd states that Pasiphae was the wife of Minos and mother, by a white bull, of the Minotaur.

I can't resist this! Bet she was a real cow ...

primarily grown up in canada, there is a food crop called rape seed, the plant is inedible, the yield canola oil.

Canadian researchers sought to reduce the erucic acid content of the oil produced by the rapeseed plant, which had been used as source of vegetable oil. When they succeeded, the question arose what to name the low-acid strain. Obviously, no one wanted a name incorporating the syllable "rape".

The oil was thus dubbed Canada Oil Low Acid -- canola oil.

But if you called it PI Number, there wouldn't be much security because EVERYONE would use 314.

A utopian dream, wouldn't you say?

*heh*

Then there's the story of the P number.

In Michigan, every person licensed to practice law has a "P number," an individual identification number which must go on all pleadings below counsel's signature.

No one seemed to know or care why it was a "P" number, although I asked around for years. Finally, while in a meeting about internal Court of Appeals information management, the subject of P numbers came up (I can't remember why), and I reiterated my complaint that I couldn't find out what the "P" was for. To my surprise, Hank, the then-head of the Court's information systems division, said, "I know."

It seems that for years and years, there was no system at the State Bar for uniquely identifying bar members, so that confusion often arose over who was who regarding counsel with duplicate names. Each year, when people paid their bar dues, the bar would number them according to the alphabetical list, but because membership changed each year, the numbers also changed each year. In a word, the numbers were pointless. So Hank, in I forget what capacity, volunteered to set up a system to assign permanent numbers to bar members. During the year that he did so, the old-system bar numbers were also assigned. To distinguish between the two numbers, Hank called his numbers the "permanent" numbers; or, "P numbers" for short. Thirty years later, with no other numbers in existence in the interim, those numbers are still called the "P" numbers. And until now, about the only people on the planet who knew why were Hank and me.

And it's stuff like this which makes etymology so hopeless and so fascinating.

To distinguish between the two numbers, Hank called his numbers the "permanent" numbers; or, "P numbers" for short.
NEAT, Sparteye! Thanks for sharing that. Good to see you posting, Sweetie. (You too, CK.)

Dear Sparteye,

I heartily agree with Jackie: NEAT!

And, to attempt to bring things full circle back around to the Group Known as Pilobolus, wonder whether I should write 'em and suggest they have their own "P" numbers for their evocative dances? Spread the news! Get that ol' "P" into the word system!

Best regards,
WordWisher (or letter wisher here)