When you give a number that has a zero in it, say a phone numer 555-1010 - do you say zero? Or o (as in alphabet o)?
In Hawaii you must say zero for naught or someone will tell you about how you are mis-dialing by using the alphabet instead of the numbers pad!
Here in New England people use "o" for zero all the time and from context it's easy to tell whether you mean the number or the letter.
Anyone?
O or 0
I'm pretty sloppy about this unless I feel the context will not give me away, in which case I will say zero if it is the digit and O as in Oscar (or, in certain contexts, just Oscar) if it is the letter.
OH for zero. both my home and work numbers, 555-4230, and 555-3305 (555 is never used for real numbers, it is a reserved exchange in US-- always used in movies, tv, etc.) are Four, two, three, Oh,and three, three, Oh, five.
i hate it when companies give out there number as all letters.. 1-800 MATTRESS-- leave off the last s for savings.. and i have to sit there and translate the whole thing in to numbers..
even as a child i learned FO 5- for Fordham, but almost immediately relearned it as 365-
even as a child i learned FO 5- for Fordham, but almost immediately relearned it as 365
I can still recall phone number from the 1940s - but only by using the old name prefixes : home GLenview 8-8962, Dad's private office line GL 2-3211 and my dearest friend's number in Newton, Mass BIgelow 4-1255!
Ain't memory an Odd Duck - (633-3825) !
Anyone here relate?
I think it funny that the phone company stopped using the Alphabet and went to all numbers then they turn around and issue numbers to accomodate companies as of troy mentioned with companies give out their number as all letters.. 1-800 MATTRESS
BEechwood 4-5789 -- you can call me up any old time..
I've always used oh for zero casually or informally. But when I want to make sure someone gets the number right, over the phone for instance, I always say zero.
Are always the first two digits in the name of a city used for the phone numbers? Here in Loveland most phone numbers start with 583, 683 or 677 and the only one that seems to come close is 58-LV, but I can't think of any other cities that start with LO in this area that would use that.
i hate it when companies give out there number as all letters.. 1-800 MATTRESS-- leave off the last s for savings..
Oh me too Of Troy. I don't know exactly why but it seriously ticks me off.
O or zero When giving a phone number I usually say O but when talking about sales figures always zero.
when talking about sales figures always zero
and they still employ you?
I usually use zero but find myself saying "Oh" sometimes. And what do people do with double and triple figures? Is 55 "five five", or "double 5". Does anyone say (as in France and Germany?) paired digits as in "twenty-seven, fifty-five, thirty" ? (In Germany, I found this very confusing as the digits are reversed, sieben und zwanzig...) Is 555 "triple 5", "five five five", "five double five" ?
Any national/regional differences or is it all personal preference?
Rod
Is 555 "triple 5",
On a local military base the anonymous "Complaint And Questions" internal line was 555 and it quickly became the "Triple Nickel."
nickel- a US five cent coin.
jazz-- you'll be sorry you asked..
Phone numbers are made up from a series of groups.
011 is the internation access code.
then there is the country code.. A two digit number,
then an a two or three digit city code.. In US, known as area code.
An exchange code – directs you to a specific exchange (or switching office) finally, the last 4 digits go your house.
When direct dialing first became available, most phone where analog.. (rotary dial)
a phone, sitting, unused, takes about 5volts to keep it active, but 40 volts to ring, get dial tone, or speak.
So, the minute you pick up the reciever, energy use goes up– big time! And the company doesn't start to collect money, till you connect with your party.. So the telephone companies had an interest in speeding your connection time.
To speed the time from when you picked up the reciever, till when you where connected, cities with high volumes of calls got area codes with "low numbers" , since on a rotary phone, you can dial 212, much faster than 909.
similarly, phone companies, assigned exchanges to business areas, with lower number, or charge extra for numbers with zero's . and smaller communities got higher numbers for exchanges then the surrounding city.
Digital dialing changed the economics, since its just as fast to dial 909 as 212. But the old exchanges still reflect the economic alignment. (And for the first 20 years, of digital phones, the company actually charge you more to use them, even though they saved money when you did, because 1) they dial (and connected) faster, and 2) could be programed for speed dial!)
Then to make things more interesting, in large cities, (NY, Chicago, LA) most phone systems have run out of numbers.
NY's solution was new area codes. For the past 10 years, only Manhattan is 212, the rest of the city is 718. Cell phones, beepers, etc., are 917, and we still have run out of numbers. Manhattan now has a second (and hated!) area code.
but even that was not enough. Now days, all most every phone system in US requires 1+ area code. (Then the number) the 1+ lets them use area coded that do not follow the old standard (the old standard was, all area codes have 1 or 0 in the middle.)
since old exchanges always used letters as a prefix, FOrdham, BEechwood, MUrrey, and 1 and 0 didn't have letters associated with them, these numbers where never used as exchanges..
and a new area code in California, just outside SF, is 510--is close to, and part of the new silicon valley.
it is called Nickel and Dime (five and 10 cents, US) .
the first two digits
These used to be words time back way back. Example, my phone number of youth was LAkeview 5-xxxx. Before that it would have been LAKeview-xxxx. Nowadays it would be 525-xxxx. New exchanges, when created, didn't have that restriction applied to them. Area codes were always of the form n0n or n1n because they *weren't possible exchanges, 1 and 0 not having letters associated with them. That has all gone out the window, defenestrated by the ravages of overpopulation and burgeoning phone requirements.
Companies give out their numbers as all letter combinations such as 1-800-MATTRESS because they are easy to remember. The fact that they are harder to dial can be handled by writing the number down just before you call and converting to, in this case, 1-800-628-8737. It's easier to handle this somewhat tedious process with pencil and paper than it is with finger and keypad.
Remember, convert, dial.
I, for one, love the 'words'. In fact, I frequently will find a way to change a friends number into a word that I can remember. Because I live in a town of only three prefixes, I can remember those, but have a terrible time with the last four.
For example, my friend Jenny has the ugliest dog in the world. Her last four numbers happen to spell UGLY. I could never remember 8459 if I had to. On top of that, I'm not a big 'phone' person. I do not call 'just to chat'. I guess if I called people more often I would memorize their numbers and that would be the end of it.
Any national/regional differences or is it all personal preference?
There was a pizza place in my hometown with the number 444-4333. They always gave it as "four 4's, three 3's."
There's a comedian (Kevin James) who does a great routine about the frustration of dealing with people who don't follow the standard bah-bah-bah...bah-bah..bah-bah rhythm when telling you their number (Yeah, my number is one...twenty-one, two-oh-three, six...teen). It makes it almost impossible to remember.
time back way back.....
and remember "station to station" vs "person to person"? a few years ago, watching an old movie (i think it was The Third Man) my son asked me what exactly is meant by "station to station"... and for us real old times, remember when you had to schedule a long distance phone call?
time back way back.....
and remember "station to station" vs "person to person"? a few years ago, watching an old movie (i think it was The Third Man) my son asked me what exactly is meant by "station to station"... and for us real old timers, remember when you had to schedule a long distance phone call?
people who don't follow the standard bah-bah-bah...bah-bah..bah-bah rhythm when telling you their number
The UK has recently changed numbers in several exchanges including ours. The old 01705 123456 is now officially 023 9212 3456 but many people (including my wife) can't handle the new parsing and quote it as 02392 123456. My wife gets upset with my using the new format, even though it has a meaning (the area code is 023 not 02392).
So I know exactly what you mean.
Rod
But the trouble is the complete pig's ear they have made of all the changes - and what is it, 3 major rollouts within 10 years? Now we all grope for patterns without any clear template: the code can be anything from 3 to 5 digits! and the number can be sometimes in groups of 3 and 4, or 3 and 5, or 4 and 4....
What a bloody disaster of a country this is for simple things like that.
i understand the printers and stationery stores all love it!
new phone numbers for business every couples of years! all new order forms, new business cards, new letterhead.. even cheap business have to at least order stick on labels with their new telephone number..
And, appropriately enough, the new area code for Cape Canaveral area is 321
understand the printers and stationery stores all love it!
But the printers and stationery stores must have taken a beating from the photocopiers and computer printers. I helped in my daughters medical office for a while, and found I could cut trips to printers way down my making all sorts of forms on the computer, or on photocopier.
I like the French system for telephone numbers -- they go in pairs, e.g., 32.71.96 and are given out verbally as two-digit numbers, e.g., trente-deux/soixante-onze/quatrevingt-seize. Makes it much easier to understand someone giving you his number.
re: "i (sic) hate it when companies give out there number as all letters.."
You may be interested to note that this way of stating phone no's is only just starting to take hold in Australia (well in Western Australia at least - but we are a mite behind the rest of the country). So much so that in my job (selling corporate satellite communications), we get a lot of Brownie points for innovativion by offering our clients a number such as this.
One (wo)man's trash, another man's treasure!!
stales
re: "i (sic) hate it when companies give out there number as all letters.."
You may be interested to note that this way of stating phone no's is only just starting to take hold in Australia (well in Western Australia at least - but we are a mite behind the rest of the country). So much so that in my job (selling corporate satellite communications), we get a lot of Brownie points for innovation by offering our clients a number such as this.
One (wo)man's trash, another man's treasure!!
stales
re: "i (sic) hate it when companies give out there number as all letters.."
You may be interested to note that this way of stating phone no's is only just starting to take hold in Australia (well in Western Australia at least - but we are a mite behind the rest of the country). So much so that in my job (selling corporate satellite communications), we get a lot of Brownie points for innovation by offering our clients a number such as this.
One (wo)man's trash, this man's treasure!!
stales
trente-deux/soixante-onze/quatrevingt-seize
Most of my French conversation has been in Switzerland where they use septante, huitante, and nonante. The Belgians also use these I think. Easier for my small English brain to follow.
mm, I agree, the French system is good - it is at least logical and
uniform!
I have a typical business letterhead in front of me at the moment for someone who has just quoted for some printing (!): it has a telephone number grouped XXX YY ZZZZZZ, a fax number grouped XXXX YYY ZZZZ, and a mobile number grouped XXXXX ZZZZZZ. Is this a
system, or just an extended joke?
BIgelow 4-1255! Ain't memory an Odd Duck
Murray 48 - spoken to an operator, in York, South Carolina, ca 1948. No stinkin' "O"s to worry about!
the new area code for Cape Canaveral area is 321
3-2-1 BLAST OFF !!To add to the list : All of Massachusetts used to be 617 then they added 857 for Boston (just 10 years ago or thereabouts) then they just went totally mad ... breaking out areas left and right...adding prefixes willy-nilly.
The dozen town within the Boston area alone (within 50 miles of the flagpole on Boston Common) now have a staggering proliferation of prefix numbers (AREA codes). Other parts of the state have multiple AREA codes.
And the code "districts" are weird.
Within one year they twice added new AREA codes and
changed the "districts" to which they apply!
After one such change a lady I know now has to dial a different AREA code than her own for her neighbor who lives three houses down the street!
Technology gone mad!
Yes, she could walk down but we have these storms, blizzards, hail, snow, sleet ....Shameless plug for writing real letters ... The mail always comes through.From Google search at
http://www.infoplease.com/index.html in Ask The Editor:
Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds. This is commonly misidentified as the creed of our mail carriers, but actually it is just the inscription found on the General Post Office in New York City at 8th Avenue and 33rd Street.
Here's how the official Web site of the U.S. Postal Service describes the origin of the inscription.
"This inscription was supplied by William Mitchell Kendall of the firm of McKim, Mead & White, the architects who designed the New York General Post Office. Kendall said the sentence appears in the works of Herodotus and describes the expedition of the Greeks against the Persians under Cyrus, about 500 B.C. The Persians operated a system of mounted postal couriers, and the sentence describes the fidelity with which their work was done. Professor George H. Palmer of Harvard University supplied the translation, which he considered the most poetical of about seven translations from the Greek."
back to the subject at hand. (oh no)
"The introduction of zero as a symbol denoting the absence of units... has been rated as one of the greatest practical inventions of all time."
- E. T. Bell Devel. Math.
"The introduction of "oh" as a reading of zero is certainly one of the most diabolical [diachronic!] developments of all time."
- joe bfstplk
The introduction of "oh" as a reading of zero is certainly one of the most diabolical [diachronic!] developments of all time.
When I was in the Navy part numbers were formed of letters and numerals scattered helter-skelter, swept up and lined up in neat rows. There was no discernible rhyme nor reason to them. After various attempts to force some uniformity down craws already sated with uniformity the differences between O and 0 and between I and 1 were decreed to be meaningless.
different AREA code than her own for her neighbor who lives three houses down the street! It's bad enough when they take one area code (geographic area) and split it into two (redefining the geographic area). Now we have overlay area codes - that's when all the numbers within one area code have been used up (!) and all new numbers (telephone, fax, cell, pager) are assigned a different area code. The result is that people within the same household may have different area codes.
Practically speaking, the advantage to an area code split is that you can dial within the area code using only seven digits (US) eg, 555-xxxx. With the area code overlay, you have to dial 10 digits at all times, eg, yyy-555-xxxx.
For anyone who would like to quickly discern a word scheme for your phone number, go to:
http://labrocca.com/phone/ Kinda tedious in the same way as the anagram server, having to search for a string that makes sense or strikes your fancy, but fun at the same time... My prefix is UFO... hmmm.
Later edit: And my work phone number is "NAPS-R-US". *That's* telling.And while we're on the subject, before this recent explosion of area codes, I recall most if not all area codes had 0 or 1 as the middle digit ~ 212 for NYC, 206 for Seattle & Western WA, 509 for Eastern Washington, 503 for the whole of Oregon, 213 for LA, 406 for Montana... you get the idea, and I'm out of memory-based examples. The power time/rotary explanation offered for prefix logic was fascinating to me - but I'm still curious about this pattern for area codes that I perceived back in the 70s. Any rationale anyone knows of for this?
re:but I'm still curious about this pattern for area codes that I perceived back in the 70s. Any rationale anyone knows of for this?
2 reasons
First--because 0 and 1 didn't have letters assigned to the numbers, there were virtually no exchanges that used these numbers, so it was an easier to set up.
second--once you lift the reciever, the voltage on your phone increases from 5 volts to 40 volts, and you are not charged for this higher voltage until you connect. (the cost of the call is partly the energy cost)
so areas with high volumes (large cities) got numbers that could connect faster with the old rotary dials. NY's 212 is the fastest code to dial, 909 is the slowest.
business numbers with zeros--555-1000 were charge a premium for their all zero number, too.
now that 95% of US is wired for digital (touch tones) all area codes are equal. it doesn't take any longer to call 909 than 212.
when the 1+ area code came in, it allowed for area codes with out 1 or 0 in the middle, and for exchanges with 1 or 0 in the middle
this really increased the number of area codes, and the number of exchanges available, with out resorting to 8 digits for a basic number. so everyone thinks of there telephone number as 7 digits (US!) plus 3 for an area code, and first dial one. (really 11 numbers!)
the good news is we missed out on all the fun that our friends in UK have had, where the origanal plan was didn't offer enough numbers, and then with cell phones, the need grew again, and they ran out of numbers again!
Now that is interesting of troy.
Years ago my brother Joe worked for AT&T and he said area codes were originally set up to reflect the volume of calls and since there were dials -not buttons- it was faster to dial certain numbers .... hence NY City 212 , DC 202 and Hawaii 808.
Yet another myth? Would my brother do that to me? Hmmm .....
When speaking in casual conversation, I will substitute "oh" for "zero," but when preciseness counts - like when relaying a credit card number over the phone - I'll use "zero." Some people leave me with the impression that saying "zero" is unusual.
When I was little, we lived in the IVanhoe exchange. I can still instantly recall the phone number for the Yellow Cab company, which had a gingle which incorporated it - IV 21 444 .... Conveniently, the number still services the Yellow Cab company.
In reply to:
I recall most if not all area codes had 0 or 1 as the middle digit ~ 212 for NYC, 206 for Seattle & Western WA, 509 for Eastern Washington, 503 for the whole of Oregon, 213 for LA, 406 for Montana... you get the idea, and I'm out of memory-based examples. The power time/rotary explanation offered for prefix logic was fascinating to me - but I'm still curious about this pattern for area codes that I perceived back in the 70s. Any rationale anyone knows of for this?
Until the last decade, all area codes, and only area codes, had a 0 or a 1 as the middle digit; this convention allowed the phone exchange system to recognize an area code and differentiate it from an exchange. One of the reasons we must now dial the area code when calling long distance intra-LATA as well as inter-LATA is that the number of area codes now needed exceeds the number of permutations which can be obtained using just 0 or 1 as the middle digit.
-- Sparteye, who has had to read too many utilities regulation cases
Okay, what is >>intra-LATA as well as inter-LATA
and the telephone company (this is back in the days of Ma Bell) anticipated the need for more area codes.. 718 was held in reserve, and 917, as well. i know these because they are local, i know there were others as well.
Direct dialing was available in 1960's in major metropolitan areas (that is direct dialing of long distance numbers) by the early 1970's you could direct dial station to station international calls. I remember calling Dublin when my son was born, circa 1973.
speaking of regulations, in most areas, the telephone charged extra for touch tone service, even though it saved them a ton of money. it was offered as a new improved service. and direct dial of long distance was only slightly cheaper than having the operator place the call, but that too, earned the telephone company money, since you could no longer make phantom person to person calls, to confirm your safe arrival at a distant location.
My impression of |UK usage is that "oh" is the most common form. Some older people still use "naught". "Zero" is the least common usage, although there are some signs that it is becoming more fashionable.
Yes, in Zild the use of zero is, oh, all for naught.
I'm a bit lazy verbally, and I can often mix "zero" and "O" up when reading out my credit card number.
Certainly in the case of a credit card number, it's assumed that what you will be reading off is all numerals so there's no ambiguity nor is there any other digit for which the oh might be confused. In that context I would worry more about five and nine being confused.
I did once fluster one of these new voice recognition programs that was helping me order a telephone book by pronouncing 3 as thu-ree. By the time it had found itself back to some sort of order it had decided that my request for one phonebook was really a request for 236 phonebooks. It took me a bit to doing to disabuse it.
Still waiting for the phone police to come knocking at my door at 3 in the morning to arrest me for telephone disabuse
> Still waiting for the phone police to come knocking at my door at 3 in the morning to arrest me for telephone disabuse
If you were on your wireless, this might count as cell(f) abuse.
>
...in most areas, the telephone charged extra for touch tone service, even though it saved them a ton of money...This reminds me of the stories I still occasionally hear of (typically) elderly people who have been renting their phones for *years* at the rate of $50 or $60 annually, when they could have purchased one at Target for $15. My parents still had a rented rotary phone in the late 80s! Sheesh Mom & Dad - catch up with the times! You're making me look like a square!
all numerals so there's no ambiguity nor is there any other digit for which the oh might be confused.
Back when I was learning German, I was taught that when giving someone a phone number or other series of numbers, one should pronounce "zwei" (2) as "zwo" to avoid confusion with "drei" (3). Is this really done, or is it some old-fashioned relic, or some overly-specific affectation (like spelling cat Charlie-Alpha-Tango)?
Who among you use it?
What specific, if any, context?
When did it start?
Where did you get that usage?
Why?
Zed << Greek zeta
Where you get zee from?
Saying zed differentiates quite nicely from c, now that I think about it.
zed ted
When first heard it, thought it was "A to Dead'and it took seeing title on the Street Guide the hotel deskman was consulting.
I've always used zed. Shakespeare used it: "Thou whoreson zed, thou unnecessary letter." (King Lear Act 2, Scene 2)
It's also called zed in Indonesian, so I assume that it's called zed in Dutch. It must have been the US that changed.
Bingley
In German, ...when giving ... a series of numbers, one should pronounce "zwei" (2) as "zwo" to avoid confusion with "drei" (3)
Certainly true when I was working in the IT industry in Germany 25 years ago. Caught me out the first time I heard it. I am sure I have heard and used it since with Germans without comment.
Puddly Arena Row
Zed is actually® a bit reactionary, tracing as it does back to the Greek. Zee would be from the more progressive Latin name, ze, prononuced /zeh/ before the Great Vowel Movement©.
Okay, what is >>intra-LATA as well as inter-LATA
LATAs are Local Access Transport Areas, which are geographic regions that roughly correspond to telephone area code regions. In the telecommunications industry, long distance telephone calls between LATAs are known as "interLATA" calls, and local long distance calls sent and received within a single LATA are known as "intraLATA" calls. Utilities regulations allocate the privilege of providing local, intraLATA long distance, and interLATA long distance services among the telecommunications providers, and whether you are making a call inter- or intra-LATA will thus affect who carries your call, how much you are charged, and whether you need to dial the area code or any access number or not.
For a discussion of how LATAs affect direct dialing parity (not likely, but just in case you are interested...) see In re Complaint of MCI Telecommunications Corp, 240 Mich App 292; 612 NW2d 826 (2000).
Yup, definitely Zed here in Canada too (in both French and English)
Where you get zee from?
A great stroke of forward planning by the US so it would rhyme with Vee in the song!
A great stroke of forward planning by the US
Like unto the Great Lefties' Revenge in setting up the automobile driver on the left side of the vehicle knowing full well that, eighty some odd years down the line drive through ATMs would require the driver to use the left hand to operate them. Or either squirm around in the seat awkwardly, one.
Or either squirm around in the seat awkwardly, one.or emigrate to a civilised country, other.
a civilised country
What? Blatant and systematic discrimination against a minority is civilized?
minorityyeahbut®
I'm gonna emigrate to the land of the tree and the grave
the land of the tree and the grave
That'd be the land of the tree and the home of the grave