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Posted By: Father Steve Persian Cooking Without Knowing It - 06/24/05 07:35 PM
I once had a friend who was Armenian. By faith, she was an Armenian Orthodox but, there being none of those churches in our corner of Western Washington, she settled for the Episcopal Church. And that is how I came to know her.

For potlucks, she would prepare a wonderful dish of nuts and walnuts and sugar and way too much better, nestled between sheets of fillo dough. She insisted, in her staunch Armenian way, that this was "paklava" and defended that pronunciation against those foolish enough to suggest that she had made "baklava" -- which, she explained patiently, was a poor Greek imitation of the original Armenian dish.

What reminded me of her was the dish I prepared earlier this week -- Mughlai Murg Dum Biryani. As I told (bragged to) people about this dish, some lucky recipient of my culinary bulletin told me that this is a Persian (Iranian) dish. "Whoa," sez I, "I am working on expanding my East Indian cooking skills, not my (nonexistent) Persian ones."

Sure enough! The word "biryani" is of Persian origin, meaning something like "fried", and apparently migrated to India ... or was it the other way around? Or is this just another Armenian dish about which my friend forgot to tell me?


Posted By: Rainmaker Re: Persian Cooking Without Knowing It - 06/24/05 09:00 PM
As I said in a 'nother post - please share these recipies!

I can't stop the watering of the mouth!

Sounds luscious!

Rm

Posted By: of troy Re: Persian Cooking Without Knowing It - 06/24/05 09:52 PM
for a while when out of college, my son lived in Astoria (the queens, NY one) --a neighborhood well known for its greek population.

benjamin is content to live anywhere where there are 24 hour coffee shops. (he doesn't often go out at 4 AM for coffee, but he sleeps better knowing he can)

a bit of trouble maker, he would frequently go into greek coffee shops, and ask for 'turkish style coffee'.

the greeks always insisted greek style was better..

when he found the odd turkish coffee shop or restaurant, he always asked for greek coffee--and was met with the same indignation--and the claim turkish coffee is better.

(he claimed there was no difference)

i personally can't tell the difference between most turkish dishes and greek ones.. or armenian ones for that matter--even many syrian dishes are very similar. the names don't change much either. some are bit sweeter, some a bit spicier, but its hard to tell if the cook or a national difference.

(benjamin is a natural born vegitarian who disliked meat as an infant--near eastern foods became a popular family choice because of the mix of fish, lamb and vegetarian choices available--every one in family could find something they liked.)

aside from an odd word or two, what i know most about different cultures is the food.


Posted By: sjmaxq Re: Persian Cooking Without Knowing It - 06/24/05 09:54 PM
I think the word "Mughlai" shoulda oughta tipped you off, Your Honour. Mughals, the Muslims who set up the famed eponymous empire, developed the heavily Persian-influenced language that is Urdu, built the Taj Mahal, and gave us Mughal-e-azam. It would not surprise me to learn that they brought biryani to bharat, but it is now very clearly at home there. Hyderabadi murg biryani is, as they say, to die for.

Posted By: Jackie Re: Persian Cooking Without Knowing It - 06/25/05 03:52 AM
I thought they were the Moghuls, or more properly, Moguls? (There ain't no danged h in yogurt, neither! The stuff doesn't hurt--it's not sentient. So there!)

Posted By: sjmaxq Re: Persian Cooking Without Knowing It - 06/25/05 04:05 AM
In reply to:

I thought they were the Moghuls, or more properly, Moguls? (There ain't no danged h in yogurt, neither! The stuff doesn't hurt--it's not sentient. So there!)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mughal

If you get the chance to see Mughal-e-Azam, please do! A beautiful movie, that took nearly ten years to make.

As for the "h" in yoghurt, once again another reminder the US is not part of the Commonwealth, since practically every other English speaking country, as well as Australia, spells it the aspirated way.

Posted By: Father Steve Re: Persian Cooking Without Knowing It - 06/25/05 05:21 AM
spells it the aspirated way.

I once frequented a little restaurant on The Aspirated Way. It served ham hocks with either hollandaise or horseradish, haggis, herring hoagies, and haddock and halibut on Fridays. The waitress' name was Honey.


and it was hot...

Posted By: maverick Re: Persian Cooking Without Knowing It - 06/25/05 10:29 AM
> English speaking country, as well as Australia

LOL! M or S, whatever your name, the delightful wit's the same :)

Posted By: Jackie Re: The Aspirated Way - 06/25/05 02:32 PM
Father Steve--that was great!

To you Common...ers: you don't mean to tell me that you actually say yogurt with the h-sound audible-- do you??

Posted By: Rainmaker Re: The Aspirated Way - 06/25/05 02:51 PM
Surely not the ones who et 'am 'ocks on 'oagies...

Posted By: Capfka Re: The Aspirated Way - 06/25/05 07:47 PM
The Taj is amazing, but if you want to see the Moghul's true eponymous genius, you need to go to Fitipur Sikri ...

Posted By: Capfka Re: Persian Cooking Without Knowing It - 06/25/05 07:48 PM
> English speaking country, as well as Australia

LOL! M or S, whatever your name, the delightful wit's the same :)


What wit? He was merely recounting pure fact ...

Posted By: sjmaxq Re: The Aspirated Way - 06/25/05 09:06 PM
>Fitipur Sikri

Thanks for the tip, Capfka, another place to add to my itenerary for my wishlist.

I love the Taj Mahal without having seen it for the way it punctures Hindi's boast about being phonetic. The iconic image of India and the name is NOT said as it's spelled, very comforting for an English speaker such as I.

Posted By: Faldage Re: Persian Cooking Without Knowing It - 06/25/05 09:10 PM
As for the "h" in yoghurt

A little digging around shows that the word "yog(h)urt" is from Turkish. AHD transcribes the Turkish word with a G-breve (yumushak ge) which has only the effect of lengthening the previous vowel. Since this is represented in Turkish by a G with a horizontal line through it. There would seem to be no cogent reason to require use of an H in the spelling of 'yogurt' in the English language. This is just another example of flagrant commonwealth squandering of our precious literal resources.

Posted By: maverick Re: Persian Cooking Without Knowing It - 06/25/05 10:01 PM
> flagrant commonwealth squandering

Came into the English (mass) language from Switzlerland, as far as I remember. 'Sides, otherwise we'd have to mispronounce it YO-gert like you benighted infidels. :)~

Posted By: Sparteye YO-gert - 06/26/05 02:12 AM
So, how do you say "yogurt"?

Posted By: Jackie Re: The Aspirated Way - 06/26/05 03:29 AM
Moghul Heh--'bout time I got a rise out of somebody--I was beginning to wonder if all the Britspeakers were asleep!

Good pictures here, CK:
http://images.google.com/images?q= Fatehpur Sikri &hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=wi

Speaking of different Englishes: we were talking on the way home tonight, and I have decided that of all the natives I have heard speak from countries where English is the primary and/or official language , Liberian English is the hardest to understand.

> Liberian English

our Librarian does just fine, though she's got a bit of a Massachusetts accent....

Posted By: Buffalo Shrdlu Re: YO-fuzzy - 06/26/05 02:32 PM
http://www.comics.com/comics/getfuzzy/archive/getfuzzy-20050626.html

somebody's watching us...

Posted By: maverick Re: YO, mama - 06/26/05 09:01 PM
> say "yogurt"?

Yoh-gert or yoh-g't (yoh as in yot without the tee) :)

Posted By: sjmaxq Murg Mouglai - 06/26/05 10:57 PM
Inspired by this thread, I tried this at a local restaurant just last night, so thanks, Marvin!

BTW, for those who are interested, this thread shows the value of having a standardised transliteration system into the Roman alphabet from other languages.

Posted By: Father Steve Re: Murg Mouglai - 06/27/05 04:58 AM
the value of having a standardised transliteration system into the Roman alphabet from other languages.

Sure, like Gwoyeu Romatzyh, Hanyu Pinyin, MPS II, Postal System Pinyin, Tongyong Pinyin, Wade-Giles, and Yale Romanization for Mandarin.


Posted By: Avy Re: The Aspirated Way - 06/27/05 05:37 AM
>The Taj is amazing, but if you want to see the Moghul's true eponymous genius, you need to go to Fitipur Sikri ...

....on a night of the full moon with your lover by your side.

Posted By: Faldage Re: Murg Mouglai - 06/27/05 09:54 AM
the value of having a standardised transliteration system into the Roman alphabet from other languages.

Transliterating a foreign word is one thing, spelling a word taken into English from a foreign language is a whole nother.

Posted By: sjmaxq Re: Murg Mouglai - 06/27/05 10:16 AM
In reply to:

Transliterating a foreign word is one thing, spelling a word taken into English from a foreign language is a whole nother.


Which is why I used the subject line I did, to show that I was not talking about yoghurt.

Posted By: Faldage Re: Murg Mouglai - 06/27/05 10:28 AM
why I used the subject line I did

We don' read no steenkeen subjec' lines.

Posted By: Capfka Re: The Aspirated Way - 06/27/05 11:49 AM
Thanks for the tip, Capfka, another place to add to my itenerary for my wishlist.

De nada. You should also add Jaipur to that list. Another amazing Moghul palace system! But Fitipur Sikri is the better of the two in terms of cultural diversity from centuries ago.

Posted By: sjmaxq Re: The Aspirated Way - 06/27/05 12:18 PM
>You should also add Jaipur to that list.

Already there, near the top, actually.

Posted By: Rainmaker Re: The Aspirated Way - 06/27/05 02:45 PM
In reply to:

Speaking of different Englishes: we were talking on the way home tonight, and I have decided that of all the natives I have heard speak from countries where English is the primary and/or official language , Liberian English is the hardest to understand.



Oh, I couldn't agree more, I find drunk people very hard to comprehend at times.

Posted By: Elizabeth Creith Re: The Aspirated Way - 06/27/05 03:54 PM
To you Common...ers: you don't mean to tell me that you actually say yogurt with the h-sound audible-- do you?? mmmm - maybe a little. But if you're going to campaign for leaving the "h" off of every word wherein it is not pronounced, how're you gonna spell that thing with sixty minutes in it?

Posted By: Rainmaker Re: The Aspirated Way - 06/27/05 04:33 PM
I'd Rather leave Dan out of this and don't mess with our hour!

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