There is something that has been bothering me for some time and that I just haven't been able to figure out. And that is whether it can be grammatically correct to only use "am" as opposed to "I am" or "I'm" if an "I" precedes the pharse earlier in the sentence.
Example: "I catch on quite quickly and am not dumb either". as opposed to "I catch on quite quickly and I'm not dumb either".
Thanks,
Timo
Back in the "olden days" when people knew how to diagram sentences, there was a way to diagram the one suggested. In it, the pronoun appears where the subject of the sentence always goes, then the line branches into upper and lower tiers. The top one includes the words "catch on quite quickly" and the bottom one includes the words "(am) not dumb either" and there is a little dotted line which connects the upper and the lower on which the word "and" is written.
Does anybody remember diagramming sentences? Or am I revealing myself as the prehistoric man?
PS: Welcome, Timo. Don't be a stranger.
well, i am not prehistoric, and quite young.. (i havent't been 47 too many years, more than 1, but not an unreasonalbe number!, when i compare myself to people who self define themselves as geezers!
and i learned sentence diagraming in school.
but i will admit, when i transfered from a catholic HS to a public HS (mid term), and entered the english class and was called onto name the parts of speech in a sentence on the board, i diagramed it.. and the teacher looked at me, and at the work, and said, "Helen has done a fine job, and it perfectly correct, though i realize none of you understand her process, how about you, XXX, can you come up and label the parts of speech?"
(and so i learned that not everyone diagramed sentences.. and i used older, out of style method)
When I learned that the public schools had no intention of teaching my children to diagram a sentence -- nor to teach them anything much about "parts of speech" either -- I took matters into my own hands and became responsible for this part of their education. Although they were a bit grumpy at the time, they have since learned that (1) one cannot talk about language without knowing the names of its parts and (2) one can more easuly acquire another language if one has a better sense of how one's own operates. And they both write wonderfully.
When I learned that the public schools had no intention of teaching my children to diagram a sentence -- nor to teach them anything much about "parts of speech" either -- What, did someone decide there was a *technique that would completely eliminated the need to understand these structures...?
It is entirely possible to be graduated from the public schools in this state without knowing the difference between a noun and a verb. The ability to express one's feelings has trumped the necessity of doing so in a coherent, ordered, logical, intelligible fashion. Harrumph!
I have always considered three things I learned in high school to have been more important by far than anything else I ever learned (well except in Ms. Letourneau's class perhaps.)
And I am pretty much unable to rank them, so this is merely a list, not a ranking:
typing
diagramming sentences
Latin.
All three of these come in handy every day of my life, and while I don't actually diagram sentences the rigorous instruction and analysis involved come into play constantly. Everything I read I read critically, and diagramming helps me to understand what the writer was trying to say, even if he wasn't too sure how to put a sentence together.
Thanks to parsing I can build complex sentences with complete confidence that my thoughts get put onto paper properly and confidently. If I fail to communicate it's because the thoughts weren't coherent!
TEd
ASK MR. LANGUAGE PERSON
Q. Please explain how to diagram a sentence.
A. First spread the sentence out on a clean, flat surface, such as an ironing board. Then, using a sharp pencil or X-Acto knife, locate the "predicate," which indicates where the action has taken place and is usually located directly behind the gills. For example, in the sentence: "LaMont never would of bit a forest ranger," the action probably took place in a forest. Thus your diagram would be shaped like a little tree with branches sticking out of it to indicate the locations of the various particles of speech, such as your gerunds, proverbs, adjutants, etc.
— Dave Barry
(Yes, we know. "Would of bit" is an unacceptable spelling of "would have bitten," but Mr. Language Person is not very bright and to change his spelling would be just plain sic.)
Timol:
Where are my manners?
First, welcome. We're an odd bunch here, as you've probably noticed, and we tend to grab bits of things and chew on them as we dash madly about on cotangents, which is a sort of explanation of why we're suddenly talking parsing rather than phrasing.
Secondly, either construction is perfectly OK. A maven who gets little discussion on this board, one James J. Kilpatrick, often discusses in his columns questions such as the one you have raised. He espouses watching for the sonorous linkages within a sentence, and would probably counsel you that, while grammatically correct, the usage of two short a's in successive syllables (and am) does not fall trippingly off the tongue.
I'd agree with him.
TEd
as we dash madly about on cotangents...Gee, General Motors has put out a new model this year after all!
Welcome, Timol. Take no notice of TEd. Well, not too much notice, anyway. He's practising to become resident curmudgeon when the present incumbent shuffles off ...
>Take no notice of TEd.
short n short n short n short n short n.
It's curt n's for you, Pfranz!!!!
Either that or lard!
...would be just plain sic.) I'll be boroughing that from time to time, ifn ya don't mind, Father.
[b
(sic)OK... who's the *yam who responded to the ethereal post that this was?
Popeye: I yam what I yam and that's all what I yam.
God: I yam that I yam and what's all that I yam.
So, our coherence is contingent on our cotangents?
Welcome aBoard, Timol. I took a quick gander at your site; if you were able to hang on during all that, you should just be able to manage here...
I have found a good tutorial on how to diagram a sentence
http://www.conceptdraw.com/en/products/cd5/SentenceDiagramming/sentence_diagramming_1.php
When I learned that the public schools had no intention of teaching my children to diagram a sentence -- nor to teach them anything much about "parts of speech" either -- I took matters into my own hands and became responsible for this part of their education. Although they were a bit grumpy at the time, they have since learned that (1) one cannot talk about language without knowing the names of its parts and (2) one can more easuly acquire another language if one has a better sense of how one's own operates. And they both write wonderfully. I read so much that the grammatical rules were fairly instinctive for me and I gererally wrote (and read) more complex structures than my classmates. I enjoyed breaking the "rules" that we were being taught. Because I knew how to do it correctly I could use "because"at the beginning of a sentance, etc. ("How Nerds Rebel" the tragic story of . . .) I didn't miss the formal study of grammer until I tried to learn Spanish as an adult. When the instructor said that we were going to study the gerund I asked her what that was in English.
I need to find a 40 year old grade 8 grammer text and start over.
I can relate to every word you wrote there, Zed!
In reply to:
It is entirely possible to be graduated from the public schools in this state without knowing the difference between a noun and a verb.
Father Steve, is 'graduate' a transitive verb in your part of the world?
Bingley
Beloved Bingley ~
Do you, perhaps, lead me like a sheep to be slaughtered? Nay, you are too fine a fellow to harbour such base designs. Knowing full well that I will be excoriated for making this distinction, I will answer your question.
Father Steve, is 'graduate' a transitive verb in your part of the world?
Yes, graduate is a transitive verb. It is, despite widespread and persistent misuse, a school, college or university which graduates and it is the successful students who are thereby graduated. The common use is a barbarism and marks the user as careless and a person likely to kick dogs, forget his/her mother's birthday and put the milk carton back in the refrigerator after drinking directly from the spout.
can [it] be grammatically correct to only use "am" as opposed to "I am" or "I'm" if an "I" precedes
I'm sure we've all wondered about this.
It seems to me that writing is similar to the art of painting. Once you've mastered the basics, you can forget all the rules. In fact, to really excel, you must forget them, just as a painter forgets the mechanics of each brushstroke.
Personally, I think one should feel the rhythm of the sentence. In this case, the rhythm of the sentence is slightly amiss without the addition of "I'm".
Generally speaking, less is more in the composition of a sentence. This is one exception.
Dogs do not back warily from my presence, I manage to remember my mum's birthday each year, and on the few occasions I drink milk I drink it from a glass.
Nevertheless, for me, 'graduate' is and always has been an intransitive verb: X graduated from Universitas Indonesia in the year 2000.
Bingley
Dogs do not back warily from my presence
Hey, Bingley, no-one, especially me, would count you amongst the olicarpy [who number only 5 or 6].
As long as I have known you here, you have always been a perfect gentleman. And I have tried, sincerely, to reflect that quality back to you in everything I have ever posted in reply to you.
The high-minded qualities you model deserve emulation.
an intransitive verb
Yes, Bingley! The transitive form just don't sound right, no way, no how (sorry, Fr. Steve!).
Bingley sez: for me, 'graduate' is and always has been an intransitive verb
And the humble vicar replies: I will continue to pray for you and Nancy.
Padre, I could almost swear that you've just passed judgment ...
Nancy, watch out for the penalty phase!
you've just passed judgment
Which is easier and less painful than passing a kidney stone, but related ... somehow.
According to the OED the transitive sense is older than the intransitive (1588 v. 1807) but "[n]ow rare exc. U.S."
YCLIU
1. trans. To admit to a university degree. Also with complement, indicating the degree obtained. (Cf. sense 3.) Now rare exc. U.S.
1588 PARKE tr. Mendoza's Hist. China xiv. 95 To commence or graduate such students as haue finished their course. 1602 CAREW Surv. Cornwall I. (1723) 61 John Tregonwel, graduated a Doctor and dubbed a Knight, did his Prince good seruice. c1645 HOWELL Lett. (1650) I. 3 Transplanting me thence to Oxford, to be graduated. 1693 Apol. Clergy Scot. 106 An insinuation that he was not graduated Doctor in the University. 1723 in B. Peirce Hist. Harvard Univ. (1833) 128 The Theses of the Batchelours to be graduated at Commencement. 1766 T. CLAP Hist. Yale Coll. 23 [He] upon his Return was graduated at this College 1724. 1844 EMERSON Lect., New Eng. Ref. Wks. (Bohn) I. 262 Some thousands of young men are graduated at our colleges in this country every year. 1884 Harper's Mag. Nov. 813/1 The class of '76 was graduated with six men.
fig. 1622 MABBE tr. Aleman's Guzman d' Alf. I. 75 With him I ranne over the whole course of my misfortunes, since the first time that I was graduated and tooke degree in them. a1661 FULLER Worthies, Durham (1662) I. 316 This Fresh-man Colledge lived not to be matriculated, much less (not lasting seven years) graduated, God in his wisdom seeing the contrary fitter.
[cross-threading and put-paiding]
I realize that the preferred form would be, "The carpenter built graduated layers"; but would it be not incorrect to say, "The carpenter graduated the layers he built"? [/obfuscatory move]
sorry, no, it wouldn't not, yes.
In reply to:
YCLIU
Not here I couldn't, no.
Bingley
For those who have only joined us fairly recently, I'm not sure how common this acronym is outside this little corner of cyberspace, but it stands for You Could Look It Up
>Not "here" I couldn't..
mantled again.
-joe (whitey) friday
actually, YCLIU is *very widely used in cyberspace, not that that alone excuses its existence.
Tsuwm, I was not speaking in derogation of your efforts. I can't look anything up in the OED, I can only wait till some kind soul posts an entry.
Bingley
If graduate ain't transitive, the word "graduand" (- a person who must be graduated) presumably wouldn't make too much sense
From Anu himself:
graduand (GRAJ-oo-and) noun
A student who is about to graduate or receive a degree. (29 August 2000)
Bingley
Bingley sez: for me, 'graduate' is and always has been an intransitive verb
And the humble vicar replies: I will continue to pray for you and Nancy.
From Anu himself:
graduand (GRAJ-oo-and) noun
A student who is about to graduate or receive a degree. (29 August 2000)
NOTE TO SELF: Add Anu to prayer list.
In reply to:
Tsuwm, I was not speaking in derogation of your efforts. I can't look anything up in the OED, I can only wait till some kind soul posts an entry.
I am mantled, and then obviousized!
-ron o.
So your new clothes aren't hand-me-downs from the Emperor of the Board then, hmmm?
Mantled, indeed.
"From an elevated point of their march through this region, the travellers caught a beautiful view of the Powder River Mountains away to the north, stretching along the very verge of the horizon, and seeming, from the snow with which they were mantled, to be a chain of small white clouds, connecting sky and earth."
~Washington Irving, "The Adventures of Captain Bonneville, U.S.A., in the Rocky Mountains and the far West".
Or was that Irving Washington? - Yossarian
I will continue to pray for you and Nancy.
From Anu himself: graduand (GRAJ-oo-and) noun.
A student who is about to graduate or receive a degree. (29 August 2000)
NOTE TO SELF: Add Anu to prayer list. At least I'm in excellent company, Fr. S, and I'll never turn down a prayer, especially from a professional!
I used to play pinochle with Irving Washington but Washington Irving wrote the Adventures.
http://www.online-literature.com/irving/captain_bonneville/
What an adventure, to meld with Irving Washington.
Oh, if only we could mind-meld with Washington Irving.