Can anyone help with a question posed to me yesterday... I've been searching all sorts of sites with no luck:
"Who was the original Lulu who spawned the phrase 'It's a Lulu' which is now in the dictionary as slang
for anything or anyone who excels, the best, over the top."

In only got as far as the character created by German playright Frank Wedekind, but no confirmation that the definition was derived from this character. Also, Louise (nicknamed Lulu) Brooks played this character in the silent film "Pandora's Box."

Anyone?
Abbie

There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it
so. WS, Hamlet, II.ii.249

lulu
slang (orig. U.S.).

[Of obscure origin.]
A remarkable or wonderful person or thing; freq. used ironically; also attrib.
1886 Lantern (New Orleans) 10 Nov. 6/3 Farrell's two baser was a lu-lu.

the early hyphenated form suggests that maybe this wasn't based on the name. there was an old card game called loo (from lanterloo) in which the ante was called the loo (variant lu) which could be limited or unlimited. there might be some connection (this is a total guess on my part!)
the "two baser" sounds like baseball phraseology - a two-base hit.

There was a song in the late 1940s about "Lulu"--anyone remember it? Perhaps Tsuwm will use his magic to summon up a link?


Aloha, wow

Hi wow:

My sheet music index (which is very selective) has:

Henderson/Rose/Brown: Don't bring Lulu (1925) and
Warren/Dubin: Lulu's back in town (1935)

and there's the unfinished opera "Lulu" (1929-34) by Alban Berg, based on the dramas by Wedekind that were also the basis of the film Pandora's box.

Here's a lulu of a lateral leap:
tsuwm's mention of a loo being another name for an ante makes me wonder if the UK term for a toilet comes from the same source. My thinking is that the both antes and loos are also referred to as pots (toilet usage from chamber pot, I imagine). I've also heard the slang term for... um... moving one's bowels referred to as "anteing up". Anyone?

Also:
Does anyone here think there's any connection between "lulu" and "lollapalooza"? Fairly similar phonetically, almost identical in meaning...

Doug - no idea on the answers to your questions, although I'd love to hear the etymology of lollapalooza.

Just posting to comment on the fact that in those two posts you went from journeyman to member - congrats. Seeing that development was a bit like noting the evolution of the use of "thou" in the writing of Donne, only different.

[/mindless ramble]

Thanks, Hyla!

I believe lallaloosa is corruption of Appaloosa, defined in my dictionary as an Indian horse highly regarded by cowboys. I regret I can't make select,edit,copy, edit paste work to document this. wwh

I wish I could substantiate the horse connection, but OED says only:
U.S. slang. [Fanciful formation.]
Something outstandingly good of its kind.
1904 ‘H. McHugh’ I'm from Missouri vi. 89 Saturday night we had our final parade with the fireworks finish, and it was a lallapalootza!

lallaloosa

Also from H.L. Mencken’s ‘The American Language’ (1921):

“The immigrants from the South of Ireland, during the period under review, exerted an influence upon the language that was vastly greater than that of the Germans, both directly and indirectly, but their contributions to the actual vocabulary were probably less. They gave American, indeed, relatively few new words; perhaps shillelah, colleen, spalpeen, smithereens and poteen exhaust the unmistakably Gaelic list. Lallapalooza is also probably an Irish loan-word, though it is not Gaelic. It apparently comes from allay-foozee, a Mayo provincialism, signifying a sturdy fellow. Allay-foozee, in its turn, comes from the French allez-fusil, meaning “Forward the muskets!”—a memory, according to P. W. Joyce, of the French landing at Killala in 1798.”

http://www.bartleby.com/185/16.html

Also from H.L. Mencken’s ‘The American Language’ (1921)

Thanks for that, mav. I had forgotten about the bartleby.com site and did not have it bookmarked. All is now well!

lusy

My dictionaries, etymological and otherwise, just say that "lulu" is a derivative of Louis/Louise/Louisa. Webster's Unabridged adds an interesting definition:

A tax-free allowance granted to some members of the legislative body in certain States, usually in recognition of a legislator's seniority, position as head of an important committee, etc, [or] such an allowance granted by a governor to a legislator in return for a political favor.

Webster's attributes this definition to a special use of the general slang term for a remarkable thing.

Webster's spells lalapalooza, "lolapalooza," and offers "[?]" for origin.

The term is now an acronym among land use planners for "Locally Undesirable Land Use."

OK, old-timers, help me here: Wasn't there a comic strip named LuLu ca. 1930s?

Little Lulu, I think, Geoff, she said just realizing she has forever labeled herself.

'Marge's Little Lulu' lasted well into the 50s; her foil was a lad named Tubby.

It looks like our Lulu didn't cross the Atlantic.

http://www.lulu.co.uk/

'Marge's Little Lulu' lasted well into the 50s; her foil was a lad named Tubby.

Oh, yes, thank you, TSWUM and Jackie! I vaguely remembered it from my very, very young childhood!

our Lulu didn't cross the Atlantic.

Thanks for the link, Jo - it was dead brill, seeing that mop of fur hur and cheeky face come swimming out at me from the screen.
It brings back a lorra memories!

Per Dictionary of Word Origins, Jordan Almond:

"Lallapaloosa" comes from a provincialism of County Mayo, Ireland -- allay-foozee, meaning a "sturdy fellow." The Irish adopted it from the French -- who, when they landed at Killala in 1798, repeatedly shouted, Allez-fusil! -- meaning, "Forward the muskets."

[got-a-new-etymology-book emoticon]

I've never come across the term "lulu" at all! Must be only a US thing...
Sara.

wwh - I thought an Appaloosa was a spotted horse, highly prized by Indians...I'm prepared to be shown to be wrong!

Sara x

Dear Sara: I too believe an "Appaloosa" is a large-spotted black and white Indian breed of horse, highly prized by cowboys for its outstanding stamina.

... Jordan Almond:

Sparteye, that's the guy's name??

Well, I'll be an M & M....

... Jordan Almond:

Sparteye, that's the guy's name??

Ha Ha! I thought that was funny, and a good example of an appallation. I don't know why parents do that to their supposedly loved offspring. But wouldn't you love it if his wife's name was Candy?

BTW - The gentleman is a Professor Emeritus of English at Farmdale University in New York.

"I thought that was funny, and a good example of an appallation"

Dear Sparteye: Is an "appallation" an appalling appellation?

Did Jordan Almonds' students think he was a sweet old nut?

Dear Sparteye: Is an "appallation" an appalling appellation?

It is, as my ATL prof used to say, a "Herzword." And you have the etymology right. [applause emoticon]


*editorial thought: what I wouldn't give for the spell check to stop suggesting "spasm" as a substitute for "Sparteye" ....

Sparteye, that's the guy's name??

Well, I'll be an M & M....

I had a professor in graduate school who grew up with the family that owns the Mars candy company, maker of Mars Bars and M&M's. I can't recall the family's last name, but it began with M, and he told me that they named all their kids with M names - so they were all M&M's themselves.

People are weird, eh?

* addendum, having seen Sparteye's gripe about Ænigma's reading of her name - Hyla is read as hyman - which, as far as I can tell, ain't even spellt write. Hmph.

"addendum, having seen Sparteye's gripe about Ænigma's reading of her name - Hyla is read as hyman - which, as far as I can tell, ain't even spellt write. Hmph."

Dear Hyla: what do you care, you never had one to lose.

*editorial thought: what I wouldn't give for the spell check to stop suggesting "spasm" as a substitute for "Sparteye" ...

Have you stopped to think that perhaps, just perhaps, Aenigma knows more than you believe, and that this might be a kneejerk reaction?

Which, indirectly, reminds me: A guy invents the ultimate computer, one which Shanks has stated may already be with us or which is coming soon. Anyway, to test it he asks the guy next door to ask it a question, any question, and that it was quids on that the computer would know the answer.

"All right," says the neighbour, "Tell me this: Where is my father?"

The computer hums and whirs for a few minutes (you gotta have mainframe characteristics, don'cha?) then responds, in a 1960s B-movie sci-fi sort of voice, "Your father is fishing off the end of Brighton Pier".

The neighbour snorts derisively (as you do), and says sarcastically, "My father's been dead for nearly 20 years. Some machine you got yourself, there, chum!"

The inventor thinks for a few seconds, then replies, "Well how about asking it the same question, but in a different way?"

"Okay," says the neighbour, "um, where is my mother's husband?"

Computer does some interesting-sounding things again, then gravels out "Your mother's husband has been dead for many years."

"See?" said the neighbour. "It doesn't know squ..."

But the computer hasn't finished. It hiccoughs a couple more times, then continues, "Excuse me! In spite of your mother's husband's demise, your father is still fishing off the end of Brighton Pier."

Ah well.

"Excuse me! In spite of your mother's husband's demise, your father is still fishing off the end of Brighton Pier."

There was a piece in the New Yorker recently about DNA testing and genealogical research, in which the author discussed just such a scenario, absent the fishing reference. Apparently, in the field of such research, the situation described, wherein the biological father and the mother's husband are not the same non-woman, is known as a "non-paternity event."

M&Ms
This story reminds me of my wife's little in-joke with our second son. He is named Stephen Bartholomew. We wanted to name him Stephen after my late brother, but the choice of middle name was my wife's inspiration. She decided that since all the Youngs are SB's we might as well name one that (her very words).

doesn't the term "non-paternity event." seem wrong? the child was fathered-- it was a "non-spousal event" since the "spouse" who give the name to the child is not the biological father. There are some indications that among low income families the average rate for such an event is 5% of all births-- with a high income families the rate falls to 4.9%-- So being rich is no defence against being cuckholded!

There is a case in the Ohio courts involving a 7-year-old
boy, whose father discovered he was not the father, after becoming a widower. I was taught that the law considered the mother's husband at the time of the birth to be the legal father, but apparently that has changed. DNA
testing proved another man to be the biological father, and he has won visitation rights and is suing for custody. Sad.

I've also just read about a scientist coming under attack because he wants to push ahead with attempting to clone
humans. Our technology is definitely outstripping our
values. So few years ago, there was no way of proving
parenthood. Older women are giving birth to their
childrens' babies. Contracts with surrogate mothers.
All new to the legislators, who must attempt to draft rational laws about what had been the unthinkable.

I've also just read about a scientist coming under attack because he wants to push ahead with attempting to clone humans

yes, jackie... don't you know? we're not allowed to *clone* babies. it's wrong. now, killing them.... that's perfectly legal.

there's a small group in the Los Angeles area that provides free sterilization, along with a modest monetary incentive (IIRC it's like $50, presumably to cover travel costs) to welfare moms. they are being sued, and accused of genocide. how interesting...

[sorry-had-to-say-it-e]

Re cloning humans: The most convincing argument against it I have heard is the potential for producing defective individuals. Several of the cloned animals have proved to be defective.
P.S. I meant seriously defective, likely to have short unpleasant lives, with no assurance that those who created them will give them long term care if they need it.

The most convincing argument against it I have heard is the potential for producing defective individuals

but aren't we all defective? or is it just me?


EDIT: in response to your PS, Dr. Bill.. let's just cut to the chase. We all know that Dolly and her contemporaries were conceived without semen contribution(using a female's egg along a cell from another female). Therefore, if cloning were to catch on, there would be no genetic need for men. You are a man. You are therefore uncomfortable with this concept. Q.E.D.