A chum on another list wrote to me: "my eply to the list bounced back 'cause I haven't changed my email membership yet.."
I asked about her use of the term "eply" because I thought it merely a typo, but no: she used it intentionally to mean "a reply sent by e-mail."
What an evolting efilement of an erfectly innocent word.
an evolting efilement
The language is, indeed, evolting, Max.
A usage to be eviled. But I guess if I were to use it, which I won't, I'd use e-ply. But then it annoys me when people leave out the hyphen in e-mail.
This one grates on my ears. It sounds cutesy. It's not as if reply is too long or ambiguous.
eply, on the other hand, will only get her the reputation of a person who doesn't check her spelling. How many people will ask her about it like you did instead of just assuming it's a mistake.
If it were up to me (which it isn't), all of the made-up words which start with e- to signify some connection to computers or the Net would drop out of the lexicon ... even e-mail, for which the simpler "message" works just fine.
I think I'd miss the word e-mail. It's like the word fax. It explains a method of communication.
If I said, "I sent a message to Bob." You don't know if it is by regular mail, and it'll take a while for Bob to get it, by fax, which can also take a time until it reaches his desk, or e-mail, which is immediate.
Even if you have a known computer geek using 'message' you're more likely to assume he's using instant message. Far as I'm concerned the - in e-mail is a waste of a keystroke. Like the - in base-ball.
Looks to me like a logical coinage--maybe a little 'cutesy'
but potentially useful. The hypen does make e-ply more recognizable, an intentional spelling rather than a typo.
>but potentially useful.
How so? Email (with or without the hyphen) distinguishes it from other forms of electronic communication, IM, fax, etc. How does eply serve to differentiate that to which it refers from anything else? In a word, what's the point?
Well, Max--In a sentence--"I ignore many e-mails, but this one called for an e-ply." Or--"An original with signature is not required, an e-ply will do." Or--"I won't be near my fax tomorrow, please e-ply." Or eply. Differentiates between the initial and subsequent e-messages.
But don't use the word if you don't like it, I didn't mean to start an e-mission!
It still smells redundant to me, in the examples you give. In each "email" would be a valid, and more aurally aesthetic, substitute, imo.
e-mail, which is immediate. Well, yeah--that's what the e means: e-mediate...
For the record, I think e-ply (preferable, just) and eply are both redundant and ugly.
Not only does eply have the same number of syllables as reply, but omitting the "r" at the front the word makes it less distinct and actually harder to say in a sentence. It's easier to say "my reply" than "my eply," at least without slurring the words together. Worst of all, it's cute.
And I have to admit that when I first read the word, I pronounced it as "ep-plee" instead of "eee-ply" because of the way it is written.
>when I first read the word, I pronounced it as "ep-plee"
well that was certainly an ineply formed judgment.
"ep-plee" instead of "eee-ply" Part of the reason I would use the hyphen (if I were to use the coinage at all, which I won't. Ever.)
oh well. I think it's clever, and I like it.
prolly never use it, but I like it. better than enote, which a friend of mine uses all the time...
ee-plee
Isn't that some kind of fancy sword?
Well, if you say it like that here, somebody'll think you are saying that some guy is folding something.
il pli (he folds) is pronounce ee plee in common tongue.
Not as fun as a fancy sword, but voila.
Max wrote: "What an evolting efilement of an erfectly innocent word."
Loved Max's reply!!
As far as 'eply' goes, if it were to work its way into the language, I wouldn't mind at all. In fact, since I'm rarely on the cutting edge of those in the know about current terms, knowing about the existence of 'eply' in its inchoate stage would be great fun if this were a word that came to be generally accepted, although I have my doubts. An eply seems to be a logical consequence of email, and, Nancy, I'm with Faldage in believing that hyphen is a waste of time
. You send out email? You receive eplies. No problem once your eye gets used to
seeing the word.
I
love watching changes in language develop, although I'm usually several years behind the erd [erd = the technological savvy group at large].
It's easier to say "my reply" than "my eply,"
I'm not so sure that it's harder to say "my eply" since I would pronounce "eply" with the stress on the first syllable. I think it's unnecessary; the context should carry all the information you need.
Max-baby wrote In a word, what's the point?
Umm...which word was that, Max? I've heard of economy of language, but ...
In reply to:
Max-baby wrote In a word, what's the point?
Umm...which word was that, Max? I've heard of economy of language, but ...
Finally, somebody calls me on it. Pick one.
well that was certainly an ineply formed judgment. Gr-oannnn... too many painkillers, eh, tsuwm?
I don't find e-ply either redundant or ugly, although easier to pronounce at first sight than eply. E-mail was not a word until people got tired of saying electronic mail and fax is only a misspelled (mis-spelled?) abreviation of facsimilie. E-ply is just an abreviation of "reply by electronic mail".
or
[shrug].
Zed, there are those who revel at change, and those who bristle, yes? Me, I just get a kick out of lang-change.
You missed a third group. WW. There are those who are unfazed by change, but whose sole criterion for judging any such change is their own intensely personal sense of aesthetics. I don't care that eply is new, I do care that it's ugly, visually and aurally. That is, of course, only my opinion, but, that's the only one that matters.
Looks like Anu and WW are on the same wavelength; here's what he wrote in yesterday's Word message:
As I see it, there's no reason to relegate any word to the attic of time. The more the merrier. Each word on our verbal palette -- whether new or old -- helps us bring out a nuance in conversation and in writing.
In reply to:
I do care that it's ugly, visually and aurally
Not to get into a discussion of taste and the individual, but I think it would be great fun to throw this discussion to my musical theatre kids and say, "For homework, take the word eply and work it in such a way that it will sound (to you, at least) like the most beautiful word you've ever heard. Create the monologue so that your audience will be won over. Then write a monologue to show the opposite effect: eply will sound hideous and ugly so that no one would want to use it.
Might be fun, Max...
Thanks for posting Anu's comment, Jackie. I suspect we both probably have our limit. There is an occasional word that grates, especially words that become popular, not so much slang as ones such as "as well." People used to say "too" often. Now it seems most love to pepper their sentences with "as well" and avoid using "too." I can't prove this phenomenon, but I think it's happening.
In a word, what's the point?If there is a point, "a word" hardly seems adequate, sjmaxq.
In reply to:
Not to get into a discussion of taste and the individual, but I think it would be great fun to throw this discussion to my musical theatre kids and say, "For homework, take the word eply and work it in such a way that it will sound (to you, at least) like the most beautiful word you've ever heard. Create the monologue so that your audience will be won over. Then write a monologue to show the opposite effect: eply will sound hideous and ugly so that no one would want to use it.
"Not to get into a discussion of taste and the individual"? Sorry, WW, but that's the entire point of my objection. It is the only point of my objection. I don't like the word, for the same reason that I dislike "fsck" - it's harsh, ugly and unpleasant. That is a visceral, subjective reaction. While I might eventually be persuaded of the word's objective merits (at least in the case of eply), I would likely react adversely to any attempts to manipulate or alter my subjective reaction to it. Attempts to do so carry the message that the subject's opinion is wrong, and I'm not sure I can grasp how a subjective opinion can be in error.
attempts to manipulate or alter my subjective reaction to it.sounds like what teachers do all day long...
While I might eventually be persuaded of the word's objective merits (at least in the case of eply), I would likely react adversely to any attempts to manipulate or alter my subjective reaction to it.Stick to your guns, sjmaxq. The "objective merits" are dubious.
The "e" prefix which became ubquitous during the dotcom boom was a true prefix as in "email" or "e-mail". There were exceptions such as "etail" [electronic retail] but these exceptions never took hold and the true "e" prefix itself collapsed with the dot com bust.
At least "etail" had the advantage of being an obvious abbreviation of "electronic retail" whereas "eply" standing by itself is not obvious.
Furthermore, the term "email" covers both originating email messages and email replies so there is no need for "eply". If you ask for a reply in an email, it is obvious you are expecting an email [reply] in return, not a letter.
A reply is a reply whether it is a reply to an email or a reply to a letter. The mode of delivery of the originating communication determines the mode of delivery of the communication in reply. "Eply" adds nothing to this equation.
In summary, "eply" is quaint precisely because there is no real convenience driving its use, and, furthermore, any theoretical convenience is more than offset by the absence of conspicuous clarity.
We can agree on this much, sjmaxq. Your opinion is the only opinion which matters ... if you're right.
And the mgmt says "You're right!"
I might differ from your opinion of the "obvious" quality of the coinage etail---but, at this point in time,(another grating phrase when everyone seemed to forget the word NOW, eh, Wordwind?) I think I've said enought on this subject.
I thought you would find this amusing. Today i received an e-vite to a function. You guessed it, i had to confirm my attendance by eply
Hubby, a computer geek if there ever was one, also loathes eply. He says to ask the person if they'd use "eward" to mean forward and e-mail. I really dislike it. It's like an adult taking baby talk.
I like the sound of that sentence..."the absence of conspicuous clarity." It actually says it quite well.
In reply to:
Attempts to do so carry the message that the subject's opinion is wrong, and I'm not sure I can grasp how a subjective opinion can be in error.
Max, I understood your point immediately. And certainly didn't mean to disagree with your point. The only reason I wrote, "Not to get into a discussion of taste and the individual..." was to simply turn to a different avenue of thought and certainly not to dismiss your previous observations about the ugliness of eply. That flight of fancy about taking a word--and word not currently found in any dictionary, I suppose--and, realizing how people often dislike new words and others embrace them, it would be fun to create monologues in which the actor attempts to win over the audience--or dissuade the audience from liking the word.
I definitely honor and enjoy all you write. Your comment simply seemed interesting enough to wonder whether, in the hands of a good actor, we could be caused to be seduced, perhaps, into liking the unlikeable or to be persuaded to dislike something innocuous. I wasn't writing directly about you, Max, in any way, but about a theatre audience. I apologize for my lack of clarity here.
In no uncertain terms did I intend to be dismissive.
NP, WW. For some reason, this conversation got the the phrase, "no, after you", running through my neuron.
(From the London-based Plain English Campaign's weekly newsletter)
According to a survey, French office workers are most likely to be irritated by waffle in e-mails. The survey, which also covered staff in the UK, Germany, Spain and Italy, found that across all the countries it was senior staff who were more likely to take offence at waffle.
Spelling and grammar also cause problems, with 81% of people saying mistakes create negative feelings about the writer. Nearly half of senior managers said such mistakes were a sign of laziness or disrespect.
The telephone company palmOne, which commissioned the survey, followed up with a sensible list of guidelines for sending effective e-mails. But we weren't too impressed by their newly-coined phrase to describe this approach: "a smarter E-ttitude".
waffles in email? do you have to wait for the little light to go out before you can open them?
And don't they tend to gunk up the insides of your computer?
callithump, here's a warning for you: there are great differences between how British and Americans use some words. In Britain, waffle is apparently used as a verb, meaning that someone thinks first one way, then another ("No. Yes. No. Yes. Maybe.") I have never heard it used that way here in the U.S.; here, it is used only as a noun; it is a breakfast treat, something like a pancake.
Max, I understood your point immediately. And certainly didn't mean to disagree with your point.Such deference, Wordwind.
oh, good grief
How did "grief" ever become a "good" thing, I wonder.
Jackie, I have heard "waffled" in the US as a verb... just fairly recently, mostly alluding to politicians.
I, too, have heard 'waffle' used as a verb for a very long time here in Virginia--at least, oh, thirty years. Maybe, Jackie, in Kentucky you have such a high quality of waffles, you don't permit any other meaning of the word to uproot its place!
And M.Webster's documents it as a verb here in the USA:
Main Entry: 2waffle
Function: intransitive verb
Inflected Form(s): waf·fled; waf·fling /-f(&-)li[ng]/
Etymology: frequentative of obsolete woff to yelp, of imitative origin
1 : EQUIVOCATE, VACILLATE; also : YO-YO, FLIP-FLOP
2 : to talk or write foolishly : BLATHER <can waffle... tiresomely off the point -- Times Literary Supplement>
- waf·fler /-f(&-)l&r/ noun
But why would waffling in email be so prevalent?
Here in the true south we do not use the plebeian word waffle. We use the French word. Just recently I heard one of our good old boys say about a politician: He crepped all over the stage. At least I am sure that must have been what he meant.
Thats funny TEd. The French word for waffle is gaufre. Une crępe is a pancake.
Okay, okay, I shoulda said mainly. I have seen it used, yes, usually referring to politicians; but I have never heard a single person say it as a verb.