A chum of mine in the Mother Country uses the word "grotty" to express his displeasure at a person, place or thing. One does not hear this pejorative often here in the Colonies.
Do you suspect that it is a diminutive derivation of "grotesque"?
Hmmm... me an' my friends used "grotty" & "grody" & "gross" pretty much interchangeably as teenagers in Atlanta in the 19mumblesmumbles. I've no idea whence the first two, though. I hope one or more of our scholars will leap into the fray.
and is there an implied relationship to Reginald I. Perrin's chain of "Grot" shops?
well, George Harrison used it in "Hard Days Night" to wonderful effect. he said it was slang for grotesque.
One place I looked said it was a backformation of grot, but grot is a grotto, so I don't think that's right.
Always to me it meant offensive, nasty, perhaps physically dirty.
I first ran across the word when an Aussie friend of mine told me that there was an incident involving I believe the Aussie Minister of Tourism or Culture or some such. There had been some research that showed the koalas actually get a buzz from their primary food, eucalyptus, so they are pretty much stoned all the time.
Anyway, during a photo op one of these "cuddly" creatures peed all over this politician, who dropped the animal and yelled something to the effect, "Get this grotty little dope fiend away from me." And of course it was live on national television. Nancy claimed the public furor was so great the guy had to resign.
George Harrison used it in "Hard Days Night" to wonderful effect. he said it was slang for grotesque.Likewise, the A-H.
http://www.bartleby.com/61/6/G0280600.html
but isn't grotesque from grotto?
have you ever been in a sea side grotto? they are slimy, dark, dangerous, scary!
even stylized grottos in gardens are somewhat grotesques --scary--they like 'house of horrors' ride at amusment parks are designed to make a young girl huddle closer to male companion-as they enter one on their walk in the garden. (and what with the privacy they offer.. who know what will happen next!)
grotesque had expanding beyond grotto like, and often mean unsightly, unpleasant in the extreme, vile, slimy, and devoid of any aspect of pleasure.
-and i most definately agree that grotty is a form of grotesque! but words do that don't they?
I certainly wouldn't spell it 'grotty'. Looks like it would be pronounced <grahtty>. It's 'groty' or 'grody'.
And kluge isn't spelled kludge
George pronounced it "grahty". grody is a different word... might mean the same thing, but.
but isn't grotesque from grotto?
Actually grotesque is from the French and describes a kind of decorative art, the French word is from the Italian grottesca with the same meaning < grottesco 'concerning grottos' < grotta 'an artificial or natrual cave' which is ultimately from Greek krupte 'crypt, vault' < kruptos 'hidden, secret'.
In England, spelled grotty and prnounced grotty (English - not grahdy, though USians, were they to use it, might well say it that way). Means pretty much what Ted said - particularly about physically dirty - hence (despite the temptation to see it as correct), my slight suspicion that it might not be derived from grotesque.
cheer
the sunshine warrior
from http://www.macquariedictionary.com.au/
grot
noun 1. filth: Wipe that grot off. 2. a filthy person. [backformation from grotty]
grotty
adjective 1. dirty; filthy. 2. of poor quality; nasty. [originally British slang (1960s); alteration of grotesque + -y; apparently originally Liverpool slang, and first widely popularised by The Beatles; the earliest record of this word is from the Beatles movie A Hard Day's Night which was released in 1964
Grotty - first thing that struck me was clumped mascara. Don't ask..
I recently learnt that 'grotesque' is also a noun for an ugly figure or shape. When used in this sense however, it apparently is still not a synonym for gargoyle. Haven't yet found out the difference between the two words. Many here will surely know. Do tell...
pronounced grotty
So just how is that O pronounced? This USn wouldn't pronounce it like, e.g., German grohtie.
Pronounced with a short "o" as ion "pot". In the Upper Colonies, grotty is applied to nearly anything that isn't very pleasant. "Geez, look at that grotty park bench. It's covered with birdshit!" or "Look at the grotty weather .. it's chucking it down again." Or it can be applied to how you feel ... "Bloody cold. I've been feeling grotty for days.". And I've always fondly imagined it came directly from "grotesque".
So just how is that O pronounced? This USn wouldn't pronounce it like, e.g., German grohtie.
I've always heard it pronounced /'grat:i:/. Are you thinking of the Val Girl groady (sp?) /'gro:di/ as in "Groady to the max; I'm sure; it's like totally nauseating; like barf out; gag me with a spoon!"? [Moon Unit Zappa in Frank's song Valley Girl] Google shows groady, groddy, and grody.
/'gro:di/
I'll go with that. I remember hearing it when the Valley Girls weren't even glints in their daddies' eyes. I've never heard /'grat:i:/, but then I don't get out much.
I've never heard /'grat:i:/you've never seen
Hard Day's Night?
OK, so I don't *remember ever hearing /'gra:ti/. Besides, I'm supposed to take the pronunciation of a bunch of Scousers as an example?
...the Val Girl groady (sp?)
As I mentioned cyber-æons ago, us teens in Hotlanta used "grody" quite frequently. Chicken or egg?
They have themselves a Valley in 'Lanta, too, ASp?
die Gänseleberpasteten, or the heresy of the pâté
Chicken or egg?
Duckling or goose-egg-salad?
In reply to:
I recently learnt that 'grotesque' is also a noun for an ugly figure or shape. When used in this sense however, it apparently is still not a synonym for gargoyle. Haven't yet found out the difference between the two words. Many here will surely know. Do tell...
Gargoyles and grotesques are both sculptures of fantastic creatures, often frightening or humourous or both. They are both usually made of stone and they both usually are parts of buildings. When a gargoyle or a grotesque combines the parts of several real animals in itself, it is a chimera.
The distinction between gargoyles and grotesques is one of function.
The word gargoyle derives from the French word which derives from a Latin word which pertains to the throat or gullet. It is also connected to the words for gargle. This makes marvelously good sense when one understands that the original purpose of a gargoyle was to direct rainwater away from a building by spurting it out its mouth or other orifice. The sound of the water being so directed could approximate gargling.
If the thingie in question fits the description of a gargoyle in all respects but has nowhere for the rainwater to come out, it is a grotesque. Grotesques sometimes appear on a frieze, a horizontal band of decorated stone around the top of building, which has no water-moving function whatsoever.
Both are particularly useful in the home library where, when placed on bookshelves, they ward off evil spirits, demons and the like ... or, at least, so I tell my long-suffering bride.
Dude, was so thinking of the Valley Girl and Square Peg. I was a feisty 3rd grader armed with groady (grotty?). My personal favorite chaser was "like, gag me with a credit card and put me on layaway." Say that with a look of disgust and a pair of day glo shoe laces and you are hot, hot, hot.
Round here it is grotty. But then it is New England.
Now we know: grotty is the antonym of nifty.