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Posted By: tsuwm what's the use? - 01/26/01 11:59 PM
In my role as curator of the wwftd archives, I am often asked where I find these curiosities. The answer to this is as varied as the words themselves and involves a shelf full of resources, contributions from subscribers, and (yes) even perusing the occasional dictionary. But true reading pleasure comes with the discovery of a new, unusual word whilst reading ordinary(!) books. Some of my favorite sources over the years that I've been doing this include folks like William F. Buckley, whose English vocabulary may be the most prodigious of any person alive today (and he uses it bombastically and precisely, all at once); Vladamir Nabakov (the Russian-born novelist), who exhibits a similar aptitude for eloquence and an astonishing capacity for the English lexicon; Thomas Pynchon, who dredges up rarities and makes them his own (e.g., he makes wonderful use of 'musaceous' in "Gravity's Rainbow"); Gene Wolfe, who exhumes archaisms and obsolete words to make the settings of his science-fantasies (e.g., "Book of the New Sun") ring true; and James Joyce, who needs no further comment. I'm told that writers such as Borges and Anais Nin should be read in their original texts, but even the translations can be linguistically rewarding.

I'd like to hear from others... which writers move you (to the dictionary) in their use of language?

Posted By: nikeblack Re: what's the use? - 01/27/01 12:18 AM
Colin Dexter of Inspector Morse fame. I once spent a frustrating and, in the end, useless hour hunting for a definition of some obscure word he'd used in one of his novels. Can't remember the word.
Other than that? I'll have to muse on that a bit more... Oh! Patrick O'Brian. Those durned nautical terms!

Posted By: belMarduk Re: what's the use? - 01/27/01 02:15 AM
I don't have one author in particular. I recently, well, o.k. last year, re-read two books that were mandatory reads in high-school. W.O. Mitchell’s Who Has Seen the Wind and John Steinbeck’s Of Mice and Men. I found I had to look up several words that had fallen out of use, like stook in Who Has Seen the Wind). The use of these words made the writing seem richer. If I could find a proper Hindi dictionary I would finally get to understand all those words Rudyard Kipling uses. I am going through a collection of his stories and he lobs in Hindi words left and right. Often I can glean what the word means by the surrounding sentence or paragraph, but sometimes not…it can be so frustrating.

Posted By: Solamente, Doug. Re: what's the use? - 01/27/01 01:15 PM
Anthony Burgess really opened my eyes to tons (tonnes) of new words. Like so many, I started with A Clockwork Orange (and like so many, I read the whole thing without realizing their was a Nadsat glossary in the back!). I find it fascinating that so many of his invented words from that book have entered the language. In Earthly Powers, I'm convinced that he put at least one word that needed looking up on each page (sibilant and steatopygous immediately come to mind). A hell of a way to get through a book, but I muddled through, eventually. I owe him a great debt, as he was my first introduction to the amazing possibilities of language.

Posted By: Rapunzel Re: what's the use? - 01/27/01 04:00 PM
During my Freshman year in college, I discovered the work of a history writer named Simon Schama. There were a lot of words in his book Citizens: A Chronicle of the French Revolution which I was not familiar with.
I was also driven to the dictionary several times while reading Catch-22 by Joseph Heller. The word I remember best is "callipygian," although I may never have the opportunity to use it in normal conversation.

Posted By: wwh Re: what's the use? - 01/27/01 04:08 PM
Dear Rapunzel: Did your long hair hide your callipygy? Wiping a palmprint off my cheek, Bill Hunt

Posted By: Jackie Re: what's the use? - 01/27/01 04:57 PM
Wiping a palmprint off my cheek

Which one?!?!

Posted By: Rapunzel Re: what's the use? - 01/27/01 05:01 PM
Which one?!?!

Thanks, Jackie. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Posted By: wwh Re: what's the use? - 01/27/01 07:29 PM
Dear Rapunzel: Why, to that malar prominence to which you telekinetically administered it. You wouldn't hit below the belt, would you? wwh

Posted By: Jackie Re: what's the use? - 01/27/01 08:14 PM
Rapunzel, shall we take turns?

Posted By: wow Re: what's the use? - 01/27/01 08:17 PM
You wouldn't hit below the belt, would you? wwh

Cheeky devil! Or do you prefer smarty pants?
wow



Posted By: tsuwm Re: what's the use? - 01/27/01 08:51 PM
oh, what's the use. within one pyge (by my reckoning) you hapPYGolucky mental pygmies have turned a serious query into pygalgia. [/pyg off]

Posted By: wow Re: what's the use? - 01/27/01 08:58 PM
you hapPYGolucky mental pgymies have turned a serious query into pygalgia. [/pyg off]

OK, seriously. "The French Lietenant's Woman" is an adventure in unusual words.
Have you read it? Keep the Ol' Oxford unabridged handy.
wow (one of the genus mental pgymy)

Posted By: wwh Re: what's the use? - 01/27/01 08:59 PM
Dear tsuwm: I really enjoyed your caustic correction, even though my "pyg" is on fire.wwh

Posted By: Rapunzel Oh dear - 01/27/01 09:05 PM
Well, if you read my (now-rued) post, you'll see that I did say that I would never be able to use it in a normal conversation. QED!

Posted By: ladymoon Re: inspiring writers - 01/27/01 09:07 PM
I had a class in college applying chaos theory to writing (eek!). There was a poet we studied that loved to read the dictionary. After reading the poem, re-reading it with a dictionary in one hand and the poem in the other opened up a whole new world. Using the second or third defination of a word, not just the most common, added depth to the poems. It was eye-opening in the ways to manipulate words. But I can't remember his name, darn, now I'm going to have to get off my computer and go find it.

Posted By: tsuwm Re: Oh dear - 01/27/01 09:15 PM
". . . those dusky Afro Scandinavian buttocks, which combine the callipygian rondure observed among the races of the Dark Continent with the taut and noble musculature of sturdy Olaf, our blond Northern cousin." Pynchon, Gravity's Rainbow, p. 69.

(just to prove something or other...)

Posted By: tsuwm Re: Fowles - 01/27/01 09:35 PM
and while I'm at it...

"The novelist is still a god, since he creates (and not even the most aleatory avant garde modern novel has managed to extirpate its author completely). . . ." Fowles, The French Lieutenant's Woman, p. 106.

Posted By: Avy Re: what's the use? - 01/28/01 01:06 AM
>If I could find a proper Hindi dictionary I would finally get to understand all those words Rudyard Kipling uses. I am going through a collection of his stories and he lobs in Hindi words left and right. Often I can glean what the word means by the surrounding sentence or paragraph, but sometimes not…it can be so frustrating.

Belm : I am no dictionary, but I am sure I could scout around to find the meanings of any words that you want if I don't know them already.


Posted By: Capital Kiwi Callipygian - 01/28/01 07:29 AM
I'm trying to picture myself saying to my wife "You're looking very callipygous today!" And I'm also trying to picture the afterlife I would inhabit once she'd looked the word up!


Posted By: wwh Re: Callipygian - 01/28/01 04:15 PM
I don't see why. Surely in private that would be a compliment, and in no way vulgar. Women are proud of their decolletage, why should they not be proud of the similarly entrancing contours of the reverse? Might it not even be proof that the honeymoon has not been forgotten?

Posted By: wow Re: Callipygian - 01/28/01 04:30 PM
That's an interesting point wwh makes.
Are there words that are used almost entirely in private ?
wow

Posted By: TEd Remington Callipygian may NOT be a compliment - 01/28/01 07:05 PM
>Surely in private that would be a compliment,

I think you will find that callipygian is a medical-genetic term in the main. It refers to the genetic tendency of certain African peoples to have ( almost always in the females) very large butts. And I DO mean large. Hips might easily measure 60 or more inches in circumference. One woman I knew in DC who was built this way had hips that exceeded 80 inches. For you metric folks, that's TWO meters!!!

Posted By: tsuwm Re: Callipygian MAY be a compliment - 01/28/01 07:42 PM
teD, you've got callipygian slightly crossed with
steatopygia
, which are quite different, as a matter of fat.

callipygian - of, pertaining to, or having well-shaped or finely developed buttocks

steatopygia - an abnormal accumulation of fat in and behind the hips and thighs, found (more markedly in women than in men) as a racial characteristic of certain peoples, esp. the Hottentots and Bushmen of South Africa.

p.s. - the Greek Callipygos is the name of a famous statue of Venus.

Posted By: jmh Re: Fowles - 01/29/01 08:25 AM
>"The novelist is still a god, since he creates (and not even the most aleatory avant garde modern novel has managed to extirpate its author completely). . . ." Fowles, The French Lieutenant's Woman, p. 106.

This was written before "Satanic Verses". Salman Rushdie didn't manage it completely but he had a very creditable try.

Posted By: Marianna Re: Callipygian MAY be a compliment - 01/29/01 10:09 AM
I agree with tswum that callipygic is not the same as steatopygic, and is not necessarily a negative word to use for someone. When I studied History of Art I learnt that "steatopygia" was one of the features of the oddly-named prehistoric Venuses (i.e. Willendorf Venus). These statuettes markedly emphasise those body parts which are linked to reproductive ability: the breasts, buttocks, pubic area and so on. In other words, these bits are disproportionately fat.

I have only ever heard "callipygic" in a medical context, though I have read it in fiction. It seemed to carry no negative connotations at all, and simply refer to a shapely body.



Posted By: TEd Remington Re: Callipygian MAY be a compliment - 01/29/01 01:11 PM
>teD, you've got callipygian slightly crossed with steatopygia, which are quite different, as a matter of fat.

You know, I started to look that up, but relied on something I had learned many years ago that turned out to be quite incorrect. I remember the conversation quite clearly! A friend who was a law student told us of a final exam question in which a woman with very large buttocks was called Cally Pigeon. I had a blank look on my face apparently, because Rich explained to me that Cally Pigeon was a pun name for a person who had extremely large buttocks, and he went so far as to explain the bit about the African tribal connection. The things one mislearns when one is a tallow youth. Perhaps I'll file suet against Rich. I'll just have to find a way of shortening the story.

Posted By: TEd Remington Re: Callipygian MAY be a compliment - 01/29/01 01:15 PM
>I have only ever heard "callipygic" in a medical context, though I have read it in fiction. It seemed to carry no negative connotations at all, and simply refer to a shapely body.

I think, the next time Peggy and I observe a shapely female, I will say "what a great callipygic aspect she has," rather than, "Nice butt!" Which always seems to get me in trouble. Actually that's not true. Peggy always seems to make a comment that allows her man to admit that he did indeed notice the nice butt without drawing wrath.

Posted By: Hyla Re: what's the use? - 01/29/01 04:14 PM
Gene Wolfe, who exhumes archaisms and obsolete words to make the settings of his science-fantasies (e.g., "Book of the New Sun") ring true

Have to second this - really amazing use of vocabulary, gives an exotic feel. As an example, I couldn't help but notice that he describes the "hylas singing in the trees at dusk," when he could just say "tree frog."

Another author whose use of words is admirable, and who gives one an education in quite a few interesting Scots words as well: Dorothy Dunnet, who wrote the Chronicles of Lymond. They're a six-book series of historical fiction set in Scotland in the 1500s, with a great hero/anti-hero, truly gripping suspense at times - good, solid stuff.

Posted By: Jackie Re: Callipygian MAY be a compliment - 01/29/01 04:41 PM
Ted: 'a matter of fat'--Rich, tallow, suet, shortening.
Clever, my friend, clever!

Tsuwm--
(note I am actually posting on topic, please)--I can't think of any particular words that Laurie King has made me go look up, though I have learned about some concepts that were of great interest. She does use vocabulary a cut above most popular writers. Ex: "We are the refuse of the world, the offscouring of all things." ('To Play the Fool',
p. 54.) "Offscouring": coined, perhaps? But clear and unusual. I certainly don't feel talked down to when I read her. One of her books included the pronunciation of the
name Siobhan. (sp.?)

Posted By: tsuwm Re: Callipygian MAY be a compliment - 01/29/01 05:59 PM
>One of her books included the pronunciation of the name Siobhan.

as chance would have it, I've always wondered how to pronounce Siobhan....

(is is *really sha-bang??)

Posted By: Max Quordlepleen Re: Callipygian MAY be a compliment - 01/29/01 06:03 PM
"We are the refuse of the world, the offscouring of all things."


Hmmm, where have I read that before? Oh, I know, 1 Corinthians 4:13.

Posted By: maverick Re: Callipygian MAY be a compliment - 01/29/01 06:10 PM
how to pronounce Siobhan

I think it's Shi-VORN - but a daughter of the swan should be able to help?!

Posted By: of troy Re: Callipygian MAY be a compliment - 01/29/01 06:11 PM
Soibhan-- bh in gaelic is v-- she vawn (to rhyme with dawn) It is the name Joan-

as Sean (shawn) is John-- if you think of the french Jean (john) which is sort of jhawn-- you can see how the name came to be- there is no J, no ja sound in gaelic-- or properly any W, so John, became Sean-- since it was easy to move from jhawn to shawn, and William became Liam--

the most famous Soibhan i know is the irish/english actress, Soibhan McKenna(who has a scotish last name!)

Posted By: Hyla how to pronounce Siobhan - 01/29/01 06:14 PM
Growing up in Boston, where there's no dearth of Irish folk, I heard this name fairly often, pronounced shuh-VON. Although this may reflect a Boston accent (with the tendency to drop Rs) applied to maverick's suggestion of Shi-VORN.

Posted By: Marianna Re: how to pronounce Siobhan - 01/29/01 06:51 PM
My friend Siobhan, who is actually from Suffolk, pronounces her name she-VON, and shortens it to "Shiv".


Posted By: of troy Re: how to pronounce Siobhan - 01/29/01 07:07 PM
I have heard both she von and she vawn-- as a pronouncation--I am not sure which is more correct--

Its like the Irish name Deirdre some pronounce dear dree some dear dra-- In our house is was always the latter for both names-- but my parents are not from a gaelic speaking part of the country-- and only knew as much gaelic as they had learned in school. (and since my mother had few than 5 years of schooling..that was very little)

Posted By: tsuwm Re: Gene Wolfe - 01/29/01 07:10 PM
>really amazing use of vocabulary

actually, "The Book of the New Sun" is a remarkable book in many ways -- I've read encomiums such as TBotNS is "science fiction's Ulysses." I rank it at the very top of my list of (unmodified) fiction.

Posted By: wsieber Re: Callipygian - 01/30/01 06:45 AM
..picture myself saying to my wife...
..You wouldn't say it to her face anyway, would you?

Posted By: Capital Kiwi Re: Callipygian - 01/31/01 09:47 AM
You wouldn't say it to her face anyway, would you?

No, I'd want to see where her hands were and have my escape routes planned and clear of obstructions ...

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