This morning, I got to thinking about some of the different ways we use "scribe". Circumscribe, proscribe, describe--please list more. But what I'm wondering is how, or whether, all of these uses somehow relate to what I consider the primary def. of scribe: one who writes.

They all relate back to the Latin verb scribere, to write. One can assume a writer, but that isn't necessarily implicit in the etymology.

Scrivener
Inscribe
Script

Or did you only want those specifically with 'scribe' in them?

Some of these are straightforward from the preposition: inscribe, describe (write about).

Sometimes the visual imagery is fairly obvious:

subscribe = write one's name down on a list under other people's names
prescribe = write down beforehand, for someone else to use

Others you really need to know the circumstances in ancient Rome for them to make sense:

conscript(ion) = enrolling, writing down on a roll with other people's names
proscribe = write down publicly, to inform people of a ban (pro- "forward" being used unusually for "public", if my good book is to be believed)

scribblative
cacoëthes scribendi
stelliscript

-joe (indescribable) friday

And we all suffer from cacoethes scribendi.

proscribe = write down publicly, to inform people of a ban Ok, thank you. How about circumscribed? I'll tell you what prompted me down this thought path. A friend was talking about keeping her grandbaby, and I got to thinking what circumscribed lives toddlers lead; for ex., they don't particularly feel closed in when they stay in one room for an entire day. To me, this usage means boundaries; not anything to do with writing that I can see.

circumscribe - from L. circumscribere to draw a line round, encompass, limit, confine, etc., f. circum around + scribere to make lines, write

Thanks! Yeah, isn't it neat, all these uses? From one (ultimate) source that people must have considered darned important.
I gather that scribblative must mean written? What are cacoëthes scribendi and stelliscript, please? A scrivener is...someone who writes?

A scrivener is...someone who writes?

Yep, like Bartleby!

And then, there's 'script' and 'scripture'. Seems to me they have the same root, scribere...?

A more surprising relative is shrive, as in Shrovetide and short shrift. The Latin word must have been borrowed into Germanic early enough that we got the Old English change of sc to sh, and also it developed a strong past tense, shrive - shrove - shriven.

Presumably the meaning changed something like writing -> written instruction for penance -> penance.

They all relate back to the Latin verb scribere - true enough, and if you listen to the sound of the word, you realize it's origin in the activity of scratching traces on an earthenware tablet. It thus predates the existence of letters, which is borne out in the derived word circumscribe.

Wow--wow! This is amazing! Scratching...yes. Wow! I looked up shrive and found [Middle English schriven, from Old English scrīfan, from Latin scrībere, to write.] . What does giving/doing penance/absolution have to do with writing? Surely they didn't used to? Esp. since so few in the Middle Ages could read.
I finally looked up cacoëthes scribendi in wwftd: the irresistible urge to write . Last night on TV there was a (true) crime show in which the husband was acquitted of murdering his wife, in part because her epileptic condition caused her to fill the walls of their home with writing, none of which gave any possible motive for murder. (Aside: and, yet again--I looked at this morning's paper, and there, with some minor changes, was the recipe for the dish I made for supper last night.)
I looked up stelliscript, too, and was pleased that I had guessed its meaning.

All of you--please put on your thinking caps. This kind of thread is what this board is supposed to be about (except for my little personal asides, sorry).

Presumably the meaning changed something like writing -> written instruction for penance -> penance.

Jenet, I don't follow you here. Could you expand?

Dear wsieber: I have often used a tool called a scriber, to make marks on metal where a cut is to be made.
Here's an advertisement:
Johnson Level & Tool 400 12" Combination Square with Scriber. Only $6.99.

[some diac. markings lost]

[Com. Teut. (wanting in Gothic): OE. scrífan (-scráf, scrifon, e-scrifen), to allot, assign, decree, adjudge, impose as a sentence, impose penance, regard, care for, corresp. to OFris. scrîva (skref, skreven), to write, impose penance (WFris. skriuwe, skreau, skreaun, NFris. skriiw, skreew, skrewen, EFris. schriuwe to write), OS. skrîan to write, (M)LG. schrîven, schreev, schrêven, MDu. schrîven, screef, ghescrêven to write, paint, describe (Du. schrijven, schreef, geschreven), OHG. scrîban, MHG. scrîben, schreip, geschriben to write, draw, paint, describe, appoint, prescribe (G. schreiben, schrieb, geschrieben), ON. and Icel. (weak and with short ) skrifa, -aa, -ar to paint, write, MSw. skriva, -adhe, -adhu, (strong) skref, skrivin, Sw. skrifva, skref, skrifven, Da. skrive, skrev, skreven (locally also weak); ad. L. scribere to write.]

the Old Frisian connection "to write, impose penance" seems pointed, but murky!

also, have we mentioned proscribe and prescribe?

also, have we mentioned proscribe and prescribe?

Or their dreaded adjectival forms?

Proscription is an almost direct lift from the Latin, but its meaning has become gentler than was once its lot. During Tiberius' reign, one scrofulous pleb called Sejanus wound up running Rome on a day-to-day basis. People who he didn't like, which seemed to include most of the patrician class, were proscribed, i.e. they were declared to be non-people, their goods largely confiscated by the State and their persons liable to summary execution.

Rome was a minor bloodbath for some years. Tiberius finally reacted when it was demonstrated to him that Sejanus was intent on gaining the purple for himself. He was summarily executed.

It wasn't Sejanus (who later went on to be Captain Picard) who invented proscriptions. That dubious honour belongs to Sulla in the 80s BC.

From Plutarch's Life of Sulla (section 31)

Sulla now busied himself with slaughter, and murders without number or limit filled the city. Many, too, were killed to gratify private hatreds, although they had no relations with Sulla, but he gave his consent in order to gratify his adherents. At last one of the younger men, Caius Metellus, made bold to ask Sulla in the senate what end there was to be of these evils, and how far he would proceed before they might expect such doings to cease. "We do not ask thee," he said, "to free from punishment those whom thou hast determined to slay, but to free from suspense those whom thou hast determined to save." And when Sulla answered that he did not yet know whom he would spare, "Well, then," said Metellus in reply, "let us know whom thou intendest to punish." This Sulla said he would do. Some, however, say that it was not Metellus, but Fufidius, one of Sulla's fawning creatures, who made this last speech to him. Be that as it may, Sulla at once proscribed eighty persons, without communicating with any magistrate; and in spite of the general indignation, after a single day's interval, he proscribed two hundred and twenty others, and then on the third day, as many more. Referring to these measures in a public harangue, he said that he was proscribing as many as he could remember, and those who now escaped his memory, he would proscribe at a future time. He also proscribed any one who harboured and saved a proscribed person, making death the punishment for such humanity, without exception of brother, son, or parents, but offering any one who slew a proscribed person two talents as a reward for this murderous deed, even though a slave should slay his master, or a son his faith. And what seemed the greatest injustice of all, he took away the civil rights from the sons and grandsons of those who had been proscribed, and confiscated the property of all. Moreover, proscriptions were made not only in Rome, but also in every city of Italy, and neither temple of God, nor hearth of hospitality, nor paternal home was free from the stain of bloodshed, but husbands were butchered in the embraces of their wedded wives, and sons in the arms of their mothers. Those who fell victims to political resentment and private hatred were as nothing compared with those who were butchered for the sake of their property, nay, even the executioners were prompted to say that his great house killed this man, his garden that man, his warm baths another. Quintus Aurelius, a quiet and inoffensive man, who thought his only share in the general calamity was to condole with others in their misfortunes, came into the forum and read the list of the proscribed, came into the forum and read the list of the proscribed, and finding his own name there, said, "Ah! woe is me! my Alban estate is prosecuting me." And he had not gone far before he was dispatched by some one who had hunted him down.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?A28E510C5

Bingley

Agreed, but Sulla wasn't as "public" in his proscriptions as Sejanus. And besides, the late Republican period gets NO airtime at all, does it? Well, not until 55BC, anyway.

I thought of this thread after reading a Washington Post article, which noted that John Kerry "accused the administration of giving short shift to the nation's fighting forces..."

From AHD:
short shrift

NOUN: 1. Summary, careless treatment; scant attention: These annoying memos will get short shrift from the boss. 2. Quick work. 3a. A short respite, as from death. b. The brief time before execution granted a condemned prisoner for confession and absolution.
WORD HISTORY: To be given short shrift is not the blessing it once was. The source of our verb shrive (shrove, shriven) and noun shrift, which have technical meanings from ecclesiastical Latin, is Classical Latin scrbere, “to write.” Shrive comes from the Old English verb scrfan, “to decree, decree after judgment, impose a penance upon (a penitent), hear the confession of.” The past participle of scrfan is scrifen, our shriven. The noun shrift, “penance; absolution,” comes from Old English scrift with the same meaning, which comes from scrptus, the perfect passive participle of scrbere, and means “what is written,” or, to use the Latin word, “what is prescribed.” Theologians and confessors viewed the sacrament of penance as a prescription that cured a moral illness. In early medieval times penances were long and arduous—lengthy pilgrimages and even lifelong exile were not uncommon—and had to be performed before absolution, not after as today. However, less demanding penances could be given in extreme situations; short shrift was a brief penance given to a person condemned to death so that absolution could be granted before execution.

some of the different ways we use "scribe". Circumscribe, proscribe, describe--please list more.

Does "signature" qualify as an addition to your list, Jackie?

A signature is "one's name as written by oneself" according to the dictionary.

Looks like the gnats had a hand in that history as well.

Heck, we deserve to have a "Gnats History Month". What do you say?

Beware lest you become history, grapho.

Dr. Bill, I think you missed the significance of Slithy's post:
"accused the administration of giving short shift to the nation's fighting forces..."

To me, short shift would be a baby doll nightie or the boss telling you to go home after you'd only been there for an hour or two...or barely pausing between second and third gear...

Given Kerry's record of trying to screw the Pentagon whenever he could, he would approve "short shrift" for
the military. I didn't want to start political discussion.

Good, then let's not. I think Slithy and you can chime in anytime, ST was questioning the use of short shift when they really should have used short shrift, and in the Washington Post no less! I know your eyes aren't what they used to be, Dr. Bill, and I thought you might not have noticed the shift/shrift shift. I was just trying to drag this back to words .

Beware lest you become history, grapho.

There is no escape from a gnat
In time you will have to learn that
Your wits will unwit you
Your feet will defeat you
'Cause a gnat is above all of that.

Dear consuelo: I didn't notice the typo. But slithy toves
didn't give me a clue that he was aware of the typo.

Sorry about the confusion, Dr. Bill, but I thought that using boldface would be sufficient to point out the Post's boo-boo. Thanks for the clarification, Connie.