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Posted By: Scilla The Gender of Nations - 10/15/03 01:37 PM
Why are nations assigned genders? Why are most English as first language speaking countries female? Whay aer others male?
I am extremely curious about this. Please tell me!

Posted By: Faldage Re: The Gender of Nations - 10/15/03 01:46 PM
La belle France? La Argentina? ¿La España? Das Deutschland?


Posted By: maahey Re: The Gender of Nations - 10/15/03 03:40 PM
Maybe because she is your motherland! The feminine provokes more fidelity, I suppose; 'Breathes there a man with soul so dead....' and all!
But seriously, I have no idea why "mother"-land, but have enough time today to search.

Posted By: AnnaStrophic Re: The Gender of Nations - 10/15/03 05:17 PM
But the Germans say 'Fatherland.' (nice to see you, maahey!)

I'm not quite sure I understand what you're driving at, Scilla. What is your target language? I mean, in English, country names, and nouns in general, have no gender anymore.

Posted By: Faldage Re: The Gender of Nations - 10/15/03 05:40 PM
the Germans say 'Fatherland.'

True, but Vaterland is neuter, in't it then?

Posted By: JohnHawaii Re: The Gender of Nations - 10/15/03 09:01 PM
And then there's Mother Russia (mats rossiya).

Posted By: of troy Re: The Gender of Nations - 10/15/03 09:05 PM
what about hienmat? (homeland?) i've heard this is a more common word that is used by germans to speak of germany.

i can't think of any names used in US for the land.. (the are some 'land where our fathers died..' but very few with the idea of father land or motherland..
there is 'down east' in main, and 'old home' (used up and down the east coast.(my M-I-L's family in Northern NE uses Old home to speak of the area, and there is the song "my old kentucky home" and a whisky (tennessie?) called 'old home'...

cathleen has been used in ireland as a 'code word' for ireland. (when english laws made it a crime to express patriotism, love songs sung to 'cathleen' were patriot songs...)

Posted By: maahey Re: The Gender of Nations - 10/16/03 01:51 AM
Thanks AnnaS! The feeling is entirely mutual!
Well, I searched a little bit, but returned home empty-handed. Rather than fidelity, (which I really was only joking with), fertility is probably at the heart of the matter. The country that you are *born in, being the motherland. Fatherland, got me thinking....In Sanskrit , 'mathrubhoomi' is motherland and means the land that you are born in, whilst 'pithrubhoomi', means the land of your ancestors. FWTW

(mathruh - mother/ pithruh - father/ bhoomi - land).

Posted By: wsieber Re: The Gender of Nations - 10/16/03 04:55 AM
country names, and nouns in general, have no gender anymore. Yet, talking of France, or Italy, you invariably use the pronoun "she". - Do you ever say "they" for the U.S.A.?


Posted By: Faldage Re: The Gender of Nations - 10/16/03 10:10 AM
Heimat is feminine.

Posted By: Alex Williams Re: The Gender of Nations - 10/16/03 10:25 AM
When speaking of France or Italy I would use the pronoun "it."

cathleen has been used in ireland as a 'code word' for ireland. (when english laws made it a crime to express patriotism, love songs sung to 'cathleen' were patriot songs...)

That's very interesting. Thank!

Posted By: sjmaxq Re: The Gender of Nations - 10/16/03 11:07 AM
>When speaking of France or Italy I would use the pronoun "it."

I use "it" of most countries, including NZ. I use "she" of the UK, because of Britannia, and occasionally use "she" of China, but normally, I don't assign a specific sex, or gender for that matter, to countries.

Posted By: of troy Re: The Gender of Nations - 10/16/03 11:11 AM
Re:Do you ever say "they" for the U.S.A.?

These or the "Life in these United States" or "Life in the US" (said U-S).

Posted By: Capfka Re: The Gender of Nations - 10/18/03 05:42 AM
I think Max has got it about right. If you are referring to a symbol of a country - Britannia, for instance, for Britain, and perhaps Liberty for France, you would use the feminine gender and appropriate apronouns. But otherwise ... nada. They're it, so to speak.

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