Hi everybody,
I need to find a couple of on-line dictionaries that will give me the pronunciation of the letter H. Big argument going on here with some saying your pronounce the H (Haitch) and others saying you don't (aitch).
I'm thinking there might be a difference between North Amercian pronunciation and British pronunciation.
I'd really appreciate your help. I admit to being quite bad at finding stuff on the net.
I know we've discussed this here before but dang if I could find it. I did the search button thing and came up empty.
Far as I know, ain' no USns pronounce it haitch. Some of us think haitch is British and some think it's only the Cockneys who pronounce it like that. Probably it's something in between, them UKns having so many dialects and all.
While we're discussing 'aitch,' may I add this question:
Long time ago, we in the States would write "an historical." But I think 'an historical' sounds quite affected to my contemporary ear. Isn't it quite proper these days in the States to write 'a historical event'?
bel,
onelook.com is a whole bunch of dictionaries in a single web site. It has NO listings for aspirated
haitch and 13 for
aitch. Take a look!
http://onelook.com/?w=aitch&ls=a
WW,
Well, we aspirate the H in 'historical' so the article should be a. But still I say 'an historical,' even if I don't write it. Go figger. :)
There used to be a rule that a word starting with an aspirated H would take "a" if its first syllable was stressed and "an" if it wasn't. Although you will still find some who follow this rule, it has pretty much gone by the boards.
I'm with Whitman on the pronunciation front, but I don't think there is a 'right' way to pronounce anything, just your own accent or dialect norm . [rant] apart from herb you crazy h-dropping loonies [/rant]
So does nobody pronounce it out like in Hat, Hampton, Hog when you say your A,B,Cs? (Ay Bee Cee Dee Eee Eff Gee Haitch...) ?? Do you all say at, ampton and og ?
P.S. I'm with you on the Herb thing Dody. That new cuisine "erb" grates on me. I know they're going for the French sound (the H is always silent in French) - but to me Erb is the sound you make when you're trying to stifle a burp while in front of company and the next words outta your mouth should be "excuse me."
*Ahem*
Herb is a guy, an I ain' eating him, not in my scrambled eggs nor nowhere else, neither.
The military "phonetic" alphabet word for H is Hotel. An we pronounces the Haitch in thatn.
Ah, thanks, Faldage. It's the second syllable stress part of the rule I'd never heard.
But good to know it's gone by the boards, as you write, because I think 'an historical' sounds prissy and affected. I would put the phrase in the mouth of a prissy, pretentious prescriptivist.
oh, cheers ww, or maybe just someone from a different part of the world where it is the common usage
a different part of the world where it is the common usage
Erb! Erb! Erb! Go to the garden and pick some erbs. We need fresh erbs for the omelettes.
Erb! Erb! Erb!Tums or Rolaids, my poor man.
a different part of the world where it is the common usage
Erb! Erb! Erb! Go to the garden and pick some erbs. We need fresh erbs for the omelettes.gah, you got me bang to rights
-- queen dody of double standard
Don't worry, Queen Dody of Carthage, could be worse ~ ifn we were hypercorrecting Cockneys as mentioned by our NPIC, it coulda been "erbs fer our homelettes"
"I think 'an historical' sounds prissy and affected. I would put the phrase in the mouth of a prissy, pretentious prescriptivist."
I refuse to take umbrage at this statement, having matured a few decades since I titled my senior thesis,
"An Historical Review of the Theories of Phototropism." Sounded good at the time (1960) and flew through the reviewers at the University of California with no requests for revision. Of course, the reviewers were all of a scientific bent and easily intimidated by what they might have suspected was an arcane rule of grammar and spelling.
>herb stuff<
Yet, most folks are prone to putting the "h" back for herbal. Especially when they say the name of that shampoo [non-commercial, for linguistic purposes only], Herbal Essence.
I say "medicinal 'erbs", "'erb garden," or "you got any 'erb?" But I *usually say herbal, unless I get a second to think about it first, which is rarely.
me:
But still I say 'an historical,' even if I don't write it. WW:
I think 'an historical' sounds prissy and affected. I would put the phrase in the mouth of a prissy, pretentious prescriptivist. ... which you know me to be, doncha, WW?
(nice alliteration, notwithstanding)
you'll get yours next time I see you, young lady....
I was just wondering (crossthreading to subtervising's affects on language), didn't all those Herbal Essence shampoo commercials (starting in the 70's) put the "H" back in herbal? Didn't the voice-over announcer always pronounce the "h"? Madison Avenue strikes again!
'Sbeen a while since I've heard me a commercial, but I shore don' remember no H in erbal essence.
I'm with Faldage on this one, I don't remember a "Haitch" Herbal Essence, just "'erbal Essence". Which is how I'd say it myownself.
Offhand can't recall how it's pronounced in the commercials. But if you *do pronounce the aitch, you lose the alliterative appeal of erbal essence. (Off to click my way to a shampoo commercial
)
We have ads for "Herbal Essence" here, and in these, the "H" is very definitely audible.
We have ads for "Herbal Essence" here, and in these, the "H" is very definitely audible.Thank you, Max.
the "H" is very definitely audible
And how about the R?
The H is also audible in our Herbal Essence commercials (well, as far as being audible above a woman having an orgasm in the backgroud can be)
Um, was I right in assuming that Herbal Essence is advertised everywhere by showing a woman washing her hair and making loud orgasm-induced moans (because she is evidently so pleased with the richness of it all) and yelling "yes, yes, yes."
The ads here are as you describe them, BelM.
> Far as I know, ain' no USns pronounce it haitch. Some of us think haitch is British and some think it's only the Cockneys who pronounce it like that. Probably it's something in between, them UKns having so many dialects and all.
For some reason the laptop that I have been using recently won't let me post, something to do with cookies, I expect but it won't give me permission to change it.
Anyway wot Faldage says seems about right.
Where I come from in the North West of England it changed within a few miles. I remember those of us at school, in hysterics, in the way that only schoolgirls can, at a friend from probably a mile or two away from me who insisted on adding a "huh" to the "aitch" in the letter "h". I guess about 70% of us in the school wouldn't and around 30% of us would, so it is pretty regional and local within regions. It's a dialect thing.
On the subject of "H"erbal Essence - definitley with a "huh" for me. I can't remember the tv ad, liked the bottle design though. It's a shame it is such lousy shampoo, more like essence of whatever was in the chemical lab that day, makes my hair go limp and frizzy - no erotic moans from me.
Small mercies ...
Anyway, IMHO the "h" usually only goes silent when it is to be preceded by the indefinite article, when the article becomes "an".
Therefore, "the hotels", but "an hotel".
FWIW.
"an hotel".
Wellyeahbut® I say "a hotel."
>an hotel
But it's hotel, not notel.
Unlike adder, which, in the old English was apparently s'posed to be naddre - thus an adder.
Ah, but if it were
notel, it would be
motel
Wellyeahbut® I say "a hotel."
You're forgiven, Betsy. You're on the wrong side of the pond ...
I would say 'a hotel' as well. 'An hotel' sounds very pretentious.
Bingley
And how about the R?The RRRRRRRRRRR????? ARRRRRRRR, Matey!!
just so youse not feelin' ignored, Faldo, ol' buddy!
Waddya mean ignored? I answered him immediately.
>"an hotel". Wellyeahbut® I say "a hotel."
But would you say an herb?
But would you say an herb?Yup.
