Does anyone have a working definition of postmodernism? something a little more than what the dictionary has to offer.

That's a tough one. I have only a fuzzy notion. Here's a longer discussion: http://www.colorado.edu/English/ENGL2012Klages/pomo.html

How about:

Postmodernism; a term with the sole purpose of showing the intellectual poverty of using the term modern to describe anything.

I have only a fuzzy notion - for all I know, that's what you need in post-modern time.

I think first we need to deconstruct the term.

We need to subvert the dominant paradigm by performing a post-Wiccan analysis of the text, or "text."

subvert the dominant paradigm

I prefer inverting the subdominant something or other. Cygne? Muzick?

Subvert the hegemony!

I did our hedge under last weekend, but I didn't get paid.

I prefer inverting the subdominant something or other

Go fourth and resolve. Amen.

Go fourth and resolve. Amen.

I prefer sevenths, but long live the resolution!

Major sevenths, please, and the suspension is killing me!
my 20¢

the suspension is killing me!

A bridge too far?

I knew there was a reason I didn't want to get into this thread...
but long live the resolution!
maverick--that was revolting!

modernism

See, anyone can post modernism...no sweat...so?....

And you can post futurism or you can post ancientism, too....see?...I just did.

It's just a post.

So why is modernism such a big deal?

BTW, every era thinks it's modern in its own time anyway...so the post is pretty irrelevant, isn't it?

every era thinks it's modern in its own time anyway - this was so until postmodernism came about. It refers to a time which was not it's own. And nobody knows what will come after it..

The real trouble is that Modernism is (quite literally) a term of art, and the phrase just gets batted around by many folk without understanding its context and full connotations.

http://www.artsmia.org/modernism/

So when people try to define the differing social and artistic premises of a later emerging movement in the arts, the term postmodernism comes to have an even sloppier general meaning in the wider community, even if most arts practitioners have a pretty good understanding of what they mean by the coinage.

http://www.iath.virginia.edu/elab/hfl0242.html


But hey, write your own definition, why doncha? ;)

http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/community/postmodern.html

there are alot of definitions of postmodernism in art. how about one that has to do with thought?

I've also seen the term post-postmodernism bantered about of late.

there are alot of definitions of postmodernism in art. how about one that has to do with thought?

I've always looked at them as being interconnected.

dasrex, I'd say that postmodernism has come to semantically imply an overall movement in encompassing art, architecture, literature, and philosophy.

Never seem to hear it applied to music, though.

http://www.fastnbulbous.com/postmodernist.htm

there are alot of definitions of postmodernism in art. how about one that has to do with thought?


how about you do your own homework?

postmodernism has nothing to do with homework . maybe you should do yours

oiks. ease up das.

from the link

>One of the best readings of postmodernist music is E. Ann Kaplan's Rocking Around the Clock, in which she gives readings of music videos shown on the cable station MTV. But while Kaplan says MTV is the definitive version of postmodernist music, other scholars like Stephen Connor, Larry McCaffery and Tony Mitchell find some avant-garde rock music and performance, reggae, dub, ska, World music, rap, and other more marginalized ethnic minority music to have equally valid postmodernist characteristics, and they're just as well versed in high-falutin' French postmodern theorists as Kaplan is. There are, in fact, a wide variety of interpretations of postmodernism, which creates much confusion in any discourse about postmodernism. For example, there is controversy about whether aesthetic and political distinctions can be made between commodified postmodernist music examined by Kaplan in MTV, and slightly less commodified, "cool" postmodernist music. There is a strong argument that there can be such distinctions, and the distinctions show the cultural/political changes postmodernism is bringing to the music industry. They also show how people as consumers, spectators, and participants accept, oppose, or fail to notice the changes. A small number of participants include postmodernist bands and musicians like the Velvet Underground, Patti Smith, Laurie Anderson, John Zorn and Negativland. Their songs/performances/texts are largely reactions against more undesirable qualities of consumer postmodernism, against canonized modernism and against cultural hegemony, while retaining many characteristics that qualify them as postmodernist.<

Well, gee, thanks, mav...that clears this all up for us, then.

whitman what is post-postmodernism ? you had said something about that erlier does it exist

beaver

what is post-postmodernism ?

Post-postmodernism; a term with the sole purpose of showing the intellectual poverty of using the term postmodern to describe anything.

postmodernism has nothing to do with homework . maybe you should do yours

i don't know, but last time i checked, this was a BB for discussing words. Now, if you want to know a defination of Post Modernism, well there are dictionaries.. and we could discuss the roots of the word Modern, and post, and explore the use of these words together.

but if you want to know thought on the idea of post modernism, what does that have to do with words?(ok, to be fair, we discuss lots of things that aren't words here on this BB, but not usually in this section, that is labeled Q & A about WORDS)

It really sound like an college level school assignment, since it seems only art and literture departments in modern universities(including some very good ones, like NY's Columbia) are the only ones who really think (or care) about post modernism, (and many of the answers here mocked the idea)

So if you have checked dictionaries, and Mavaric's posts (most EDU links, i noted)that have discussions about the idea, what more do you want?

why don't you find some art or liturture BB that is interested in post modernism (the idea!- for what ever it is worth) and discuss it there.

you might also share some idea's of your own..maybe you have something to offer.. (besides proding us with questions)

but really you come across like you want us to do research for you, as if you have a school assignment, and can't find anything easily plagerized from the web.

I see you deleted 2 of your critical comments, (but then, you sent me a crital PM.) somehow, i think my comments hit the mark, and made you angry. one line of mine generates 3 negative posts (2 did get deleted-) but they were replaced by a nasty email.--all with the message, i am being hostile!
Way to go dasrex.. (short for dastardly king? or something else?) and by the way, my non de cyber is of troy,, not troy.

i'll admit, my post was a bit pointed, but then, postmodernism is such a dull idea- i guess i sounded sharper than i realized.

troy at least i had the respect for you to delete them and since you have been here much longer then me i will find another bb to post on

More dragon than griffon, Helen ...

Anyway, post-modernism is what you get when dadaism becomes gagaism.

I never thought of the Velvet Underground as being postmodern before. Their sound was stripped-down in a back-to-basics kind of way, kind of the thinking person's garage band. Their postmodernism escapes me.

Clearly, folks are still composing their answers to my Velvet Underground question. (The first thing you learn is, you've always got to wait.) Anyway, I wonder what is regarded as the first or among the first postmodern works of literature? I have something in mind that has certain postmodern aspects but I doubt it would be called a postmodern work really.

still composing their answers to my Velvet Underground question

To quote the immortal Goldie Hawn:

"I forgot the question!"

> I wonder what is regarded as the first or among the first postmodern works of literature?

I wonder if Mav would like to propose a little known work by Joseph Heller?

You talking about "Something Happened!"?

Well my implied question was, How is the Velvet Underground postmodern?

How is the Velvet Underground postmodern?

My answer fwiw, Alex woudl be along these lines: modernist music rejected the forms and melodic structures of historically derived Western music; AW's VU typically blended raucous new soundscapes with almost unbearably sweet and very traditionally melodic songs. It's this 'knowing' kind of incorporation of the traditional pattern of arts over a base material that takes new elements and dissonances entirely for granted that for me characterises quite a lot of music that can be classified post-modern.

Okay, thanks. That's very interesting. I like VU a lot but I had never thought of them that way.

I like VU a lot but

Me too; when I was studying art A level, I often spent up to 10 hours at a stretch in the art department over the weekend making silk-screen prints... we had just a battered old record deck with autochanger, and in some strange postmodernist creed of yuff angst, we used to put the Velvets on and just let it repeat all day! The almost hypnotic effect is still woven deep into my brain, such that my fingers start twitching to wield a palette knife whenever I hear one of the so-familiar tracks...

I begin to understand just why you have sequestered yourself in deepest, darkest Wales. It was that or Broadmoor, wasn't it?

Broadmoor

Are you helping out with the new OED, mav? Conforting to see history repeat itself, somehow.

Broadmoor

Are you helping out with the new OED, mav? Conforting...

It's only my strength that keeps me out of prison - that, and I like hanging around in bars anyway :)

It's this 'knowing' kind of incorporation of the traditional pattern of arts over a base material that takes new elements and dissonances entirely for granted that for me characterises quite a lot of music that can be classified post-modern.

It does seem to be quite natural for (artists ) expression to manifest ones *individual influences...

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I believe it was Samuel Clemens who said...

"Wagner's music is much more beautiful than it sounds".

...errrr... someone said something like that...