This is probably a very stupid question but . . .
In medical dramas as they wheel the patient into the emergency room they always say "25 miligrams of somethingorother. Stat!". What is this word "stat"? Have I misheard?
No such thing as a stupid question, they say, except the one that is not asked.
From the site "medspeak - the Language of ER",
http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/5196/medspeak.html#s:
stat - from the Latin statinum, meaning immediately
Hi, Phil - welcome to the board - in the temporary absence of Jackie, who is hiding beneath the laurels
to avoid accolades, etc.
No such thing as a stupid question, they say, except the one that is not asked.
I agree with Marty, - but that doesn't mean that you should always expect sensible answers - not from this
board, anyway.
BTW - do they really say "Stat" in real-life op. theatres, does anyone know? I worked as a hospital porter during one long vac and did several days on theatre duty, but never once did I hear the expression.
Maybe it is YAY/BT.
Aha. That explains it. I'd guessed the meaning but I wondered what the word actually was. I couldn't find it in the dictionaries I have here (English and American English).
Thanks.
>BTW - do they really say "Stat" in real-life op. theatres
It is very common in emergency rooms to hear a physician give a verbal order for medication and follow it up with stat. In this case the meaning is to give it now, not t.i.d., b.i.d., q.i.d, or at some other interval, because the convention is for those medications to be delivered at a set time of day. The three *.i.d.'s are acronyms for Latin expressions, I will probably misspell them, but here goes: Ter in Die (three times in a day) Bis in Die (twice a day) and Quater in Die (four times a day.) In the hospital setting if a nurse has an order for b.i.d/, he gives the medication once in AM and once in PM. The hospital will actually have a rule as to what the times of day are. Most common is to use 8 AM as the starting time, b.i.d. would be 8 AM and 8 PM, q.i.d. would be 8 AM, 12 noon, 4 PM and 8 PM. There are exceptions where a medication has to be delivered at more even times around the clock and I believe the convention was to have the physician write down the actual times for administration of the dosage. If a physician wanted an immediate dosage followed by regular administration she would say administer 1000 units of penn-V stat then b.i.d. until this guy's rash clears up.
There's also a term for once a day but I've forgotten it.
And different hospitals have different protocols for using stat. as an "order". I remember quite clearly the neurosurgeon who was summoned to the ER at Parkland to attend to JFK later wrote that he first learned of the emergency when he was walking up a flight of stairs and heard a page for Doctor X to report to the ER "stat."
Many years ago I worked as an orderly in an emergency room, and I cannot tell you that I ever heard the word stat used other than as an order for medication. Certainly there were never scenes such as those on television where people go running and banging doors and shoving people out of the way and screaming at the tops of their lungs. It was a lesson I learned very early in life (I began working in the ER when I was 16 or so.) When an emergency occurs, the very worst thing one can do is to hurry, because that can result in a mistake or further injury, even to oneself.
I recently watched an accident scene near my house, and had to explain to a neighbor that the EMT didn't run because it didn't help. In addition to working in the ER, I was also a volunteer rescue squad member for 11 years. To give perspective, one year I had over a thousand "ambulance runs". In those 11 years I never once witnessed or even heard of a situation or incident in which a few seconds made a difference. A few minutes, definitely, but seconds simply don't count, and if I fall and break a leg while running to get to a victim, how have I helped him or her?
stat enough????
There's also a term for once a day but I've forgotten it.
Why can't they just say DAILY?
And is there a reason they HAVE to use Latin instead of plain ole English. It's not as if they have that many more syllables to deal with. Not only that, they aren’t even using the entire words, just abbreviations. I can understand using Latin in some circumstances, when you don’t want to alarm a patient before a doctor has had a chance to explain the situation for example, but why do they do it in this case?
La belle (and I'm guessing here) Bel said: And is there a reason they HAVE to use Latin instead of plain ole English.
It's clung on in hospitals because of the imprecision of English and the pressure under which some medical staff work, particularly, I guess, in ERs.
Stat means NOW! Not in five minutes or half an hour.
Merci mon Capital mais...
I don't understand is the use of Latin to describe how many times a day a nurse must administer pills.
I am sure doctors and nurses have to LEARN that t.i.d means Ter in Die (three times in a day), likewise for b.i.d. and q.i.d. These are not terms people generally know. So why are they bothering to teach them the abbreviations instead of just saying "give the patient a dose three times in a day" which is no more subject to interpretation than t.i.d. I am sure there are much more important things that they should be concentrating on instead of highbrow vernacular for common phrases.
And how is the word NOW not as clear as STAT?
>And how is the word NOW not as clear as STAT?
clarity is not the issue atall... just look at how they're taught to write prescriptions! here's the thing: how would you feel if you spent more than 10 years and $100,000 American learning how to say "NOW" and "thrice daily"?! <grin>
>And is there a reason they HAVE to use Latin instead of plain ole English?
It harkens back to a day when prescriptions were written in Latin, which was the language of the learned class. There are many more of them that become second nature as one goes through med or nursing school. To this day when taking notes I use a c with a line over it for with (an abbreviation for the Latin word cum) and an s with a line over it for without (sine). And I went to neither med school nor nursing school. I was married to an RN and picked up some bad habits from her.
And that's what these things really are is habit. I've no idea why the medical fraternity holds onto the Latin stuff when the legal profession has made great strides to get rid of many of the phrases they used to toss about with great abandon.
Some things still come through in that field, though. I printed out a copy of the Supreme Court's decision in Bush v. Gore, and one of the first words on the first page is certiorari (let it be certified, I think.) If you go back say 150 to 200 years and try to read a court decision from that era you have to know a lot of Latin to get through it successfully. A part of it is the fact that use of arcane language makes it more difficult for people to fake their way into the profession, I'm certain. But a great deal of it is tradition.
TEd said (Okay, so it doesn't rhyme, but I don't care): A part of it is the fact that use of arcane language makes it more difficult for people to fake their way into the profession, I'm certain.
As I just noted in another thread in Information and Announcements, I'm an economist by training. One of the first things you're taught (well, almost) is that the object of every economic grouping is to ensure that sufficient barriers are put up to entry to discourage the idea of a homogenous product. Medicine, Law, Economics, Accountancy and virtually every other profession uses language as part of that barrier.
You will have noted that most of them try to get themselves set up with some form of Government-enforced registration system (which they themselves control), which represents, of course, another barrier to entry. This is a good thing in many cases, naturally, but it serves to reinforce my point.
What seems a muddy approach to the professional language to outsiders is actually, in many cases, a finely-tuned precision of meaning within the community of such professionals.
For instance, a "float" means a buoyant object which holds a line up to a fisherman, operating cash to a businessman and a metal implement for levelling concrete to a builder.
Ah, well. End of sermon!
Latin in medicine, the law, etc.
I have no doubt the reason the use of Latin in the "learned" professions stuck on past the 18th century is entirely a matter of snobbery. You can't really make out a case for Latin being more useful than English; it's just a matter of defining a clahss (as we Yanks disdainfully call it).
That said, I have a question for all of you who speak non-American English: Why is the venue for surgical procedures called an operating theatre? (We call it an operating room). It certainly isn't a place of entertainment. (Except on TV). Your thoughts? (I don't expect facts, but then I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone came up with facts).
Couldn't it just be that using the Latin in medicine is the same as Latin in music?
I was taught that the Latin, being a "dead" language, was static and therefore does not change ... so an American musician seeing "Pronto" on a score written by a Norwegian would know that the passage was to be played fast. Similar to medicine??
Would seem sensible to me in these days of international travel. I like the idea that the MD in Japan would know by the Latin how many times a day I have to take my medicine.
Ok, I am ready to take my medicine on this one.
wow
Why is the venue for surgical procedures called an operating theatre?
Two questions here-- one answer is from M-W 10th-- theater...
3 a : a place rising by steps or gradations <a woody theater of stateliest view -- John Milton>
b : a room often with rising tiers of seats for assemblies (as for lectures or surgical demonstrations)
In day's past, operation where done in 3.B, the operation theater-- some teaching hospitals still have them, in addition to OR's. (NY's famous "belleview' hospital for one) but the seat are now above, and seperated by glass from the OR.
now as for why theatre and not theater....?
In reply to:
Latin in music
Yes and no, Wow. It's not Latin which is used in music, it's Italian (they were the first to invent a more-or-less standard set of directions which had more-or-less precise meanings) and the Italian directions have never been universal. German composers will say breit instead of largo and French composers (naturally) usually write their directions in French. It's mostly English and Americans who have preserved the Italian system, even translating directions in German, in an edition of Bach, for instance, into Italian. But that's dying out. More and more, composers are using, and publishers printing, directions in the composers language. (except in the case of composers like Sibelius, since nobody reads Finnish).
since nobody reads FinnishSome 5 million Finn's might disagree-- (and that's allowing that children under the age of 5 don't read, and that the population is not 100% literate)
http://www.stat.fi/tk/tp/tasku/taskue_vaesto.html
In reply to:
5 million Finns
True, O Queen. But other than Finns?
theatre and not theaterI was once being wheeled into theatre for a double wisdom tooth extraction. As I started to fade under the anaesthetic, a nurse bent over me, chatting, and asked what I did for a living "I'm a theatre manager", I replied. Her face lit up in apparent understanding - "Oh, which hospital?"
I was spared the explanations by drifting into sweet oblivion
Hi - my first time on this excellent board and I get to correct somebody (and the web site cited)! Stat is from STATIM, not statinum. I studied 5 years of Latin, but still had to check the Latin-English dictionary at http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Latin/ to be sure enough to post this.
That medical words site may not be wholly reliable.
>Stat is from STATIM, not statinum.
hi hyla! just hieing in to say that W3 agrees with you.
Hi back - I saw some of your other posts and was intrigued enough to go and visit your site and sign up for wwftd. I assume all I need do is send you an e-mail asking to be signed up?
Very pleased to have found this board,
Hyla
>True, O Queen. But other than Finns?
I wouldn't knock those people if I were you. My father was raised in a community with a lot of Finnish immigrants in it, and he was always quick to side with them because they would gang up on you if you didn't. Yes, many's the times he said to me, "Cast your weight to the Finns." Or something like that.
In reply to:
Finns
Oh, for pity's sake! I have nothing whatever against Finns; I was trying to make the point that nobody (well, scarcely anybody) else speaks Finnish. As I understand it, Finnish is a member of the Finno-Ugric language group, which has only 3 members (Finnish, Hungarian and, I believe, Estonian) and they are so different from all other European languages and to be almost totally unintelligible to anyone else. Indeed, it has been said that the Finno-Ugric languages are rivalled for exclusivity and unintelligibility only by Albanian and Euzkadi (Basque), which are not even Indo-European languages and which have no known relatives. I wish when I started this I had referred to a Basque composer, except I don't know of any.
a Basque composer
"Even ze orgestra is bootiful!"
In reply to:
Hi - my first time on this excellent board and I get to correct somebody (and the web site cited)! Stat is from STATIM, not statinum. I studied 5 years of Latin, but still had to check the Latin-English dictionary at http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Latin/ to be sure enough to post this.
That medical words site may not be wholly reliable.
And hi from Martinus of the inaccurate Latin post. I read your correction and wondered what you were on about because my brain had already corrected the original word statinum to statim (my 5 years of Latin 25 years ago still has some effect) and I had to re-read my original cut-and-pasted post to find the error from the website. Thanks.
By the way, check out the HTML notes under FAQ and you'll discover how to turn URL's into live links, plus other useful stuff like bolding and colors.
... so an American musician seeing "Pronto" on a score written by a Norwegian would know that the passage was to be played fast.
I know enough music, Italian and Spanish to be dangerous, but wouldn't a musician seeing "Pronto" think it meant play it immediately? I think presto is the word you're looking for. Faster than allegro. But not as fast as prestissimo.
Marty said: I know enough music, Italian and Spanish to be dangerous, but wouldn't a musician seeing "Pronto" think it meant play it immediately? I think presto is the word you're looking for. Faster than allegro. But not as fast as prestissimo.
I remember seeing some sheet music for a rock song some years ago on which the speed was described as "Flat Out"! Still makes me giggle.
>
Oh, for pity's sake! I have nothing whatever against Finns; . . . I wish when I started this I had referred to a Basque composer, except I don't know of any.
Bob:
Whoa! I was just using your note as an excuse to make a good pun. Didn't mean to offend you!!!
There was only one Basqke composer of note (so to speak). I cannot remember his name, but he was killed in a tragic accident during the Spanish Civil War. As I recall the story, he was standing in the wings while the Basque National Symphony Orchestra performed his first (and last) symphony. There was a false report of an air raid and he was trampled by all of the orchestra members who were trying to get through the only egress from the stage. The morale of the story, of course, don't put all your Basques in one exit.
you guys slight Basque 'classical' music heritage; there have been several important Basque composers, not the least of whom would be Maurice Ravel (his mother was Basque); others "of note" include Arriaga (who died in 1826 at the age of 20) and Guridi (who died in 1961).
I remember seeing some sheet music for a rock song some years ago on which the speed was described as "Flat Out"!
We just did a Rakhmaninov piece that had the notes in Russian. The editor was nice enough to translate them into Italian for us.
Faldage said:
We just did a Rakhmaninov piece that had the notes in Russian. The editor was nice enough to translate them into Italian for us. (My bolding).
Okay, okay. So how much is a
rakh of silver worth?
For an explanation of this question, see the "Fortnight" thread. Of course, I would listen to
Rakmaninov, and my father would play his piano pieces. Did, perhaps, Rakhmaninov compose for the sitar?
Basque composers
Well, I sort of expected someone to come up with at least one Basque composer after I posted that, such being the level of erudition to be found in this group. Now all I have to do is refer to a one-armed redheaded green-eyed Ecuadorian Pali scholar and someone will come up with a name. TEd will come up with something, probably outrageous, which I eagerly anticipate.
Took off for one day after the music-medicine post and come back to find a lot of stuff to swallow....but then I'd promised to take my medicine on this one!
For newcomers out there, I do love to shake beehives! You especially have to beware of me when the weather in my region (the US's shortest Secoast) is cold and gloomy
I tend to go a bit wacky.
WOW
>"Oh, which hospital?"
You were lucky. I had to put up with this for years! I was working in the West End and had just come back from Broadway when my "partner" qualified as a doctor. I got caught out every time. I now say that I work "in the arts" and people start asking me about museums - aaargh. In the UK, art museums are called usually called galleries, so I've never worked in a museum and I'm performing arts not visual arts, anyway. Tip: Theatre managers should not marry surgeons!
1. Ravel was Basque.
2. Sibelius spoke Swedish.
3. Albanian is Indo-European.
4. Lots of other minor Finno-Ugrian languages (Votyak, Veps, Zyryen, Mordvin, Lappish, Chuvash... and I'd better not go on in case one of those is actually Turkic).
Hi, there NicholasW. Glad to see I'm not the only one imposing didactic diatribes on the lollygaggers.
Bingley