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Posted By: tsuwm contranyms, redux - 04/27/03 04:50 PM
"Sanction" is an interesting word, in that, depending on context, it can have diametrically opposing meanings. [Wikipidia]

this was brought home to me in reading Edmund Morris's Theodore Rex:

The memos were classified Confidential, Private, and Personal. Root filed them, knowing such strictures, in Roosevelt's parlance, usually meant "Hold for Publication." He had hardly done so, indeed, before Congress asked for documents relating to Miles's insinuations, and the President sanctioned their release.

boy, howdy! hi, Faldage that's not too ambiguous (upon reflection, he clearly approved their release) -- especially as, 10 pages earlier you can find this:

Plunging deep into sociological theory, Knox postulated the "underlying laws" that linked all social and industrial movements, and the common-law "sanctions" that prompted them. Was it rash of the President to seek sanctions of his own?

here's the AHD4 view: http://www.bartleby.com/61/2/S0060200.html


Posted By: Buffalo Shrdlu Re: contranyms, redux - 04/27/03 05:07 PM
is there a list somewhere of these delightful delights? or is that delightless? or maybe Elights? or Alights?

hey, who turned out the lights?
Posted By: tsuwm Re: contranyms, redux - 04/27/03 05:15 PM
there've been several threads; here's one I unearthed via a search for contranym:
http://wordsmith.org/board/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=words&Number=443

(make sure your profile allows for long threads (i.e., 99 posts per page), to avoid the Old Long Thread Syndrome)

Posted By: maahey Re: contranyms, redux - 04/27/03 05:25 PM
'Sanctions' when used to mean:
4a. A law or decree. b. The penalty for noncompliance specified in a law or decree.
5. A penalty, specified or in the form of moral pressure, that acts to ensure compliance or conformity.
6. A coercive measure adopted usually by several nations acting together against a nation violating international law
,
is however restricted in its usage isn't it, to only the macrocosm of polito-economic contexts. If this is right, tsuwm, would a word that has a contrary meaning in a restricted context, also be elgible for contranym status?

Posted By: Buffalo Shrdlu Re: contranyms, redux - 04/27/03 05:26 PM
that was much fun, joe, thanks!

where are all those people?

if it would be better not to reply to that, I will understand.

Posted By: tsuwm Re: contranyms, redux - 04/27/03 05:56 PM
>would a word that has a contrary meaning in a restricted context, also be elgible for contranym status?

In more modern language every measure is called a sanction which is intended to further the observation of the law by subjects, whether the reward to whomsoever fulfills it, or the penalty or chastisement inflicted or at least threatened for nonfulfilment, whether it relates to presciptive laws which require something to be done, or to prohibitive laws which require that something be omitted. These sanctions in turn may result from the very nature of the law, which are internal sanctions like those of the natural law, or they may be added by a positive act of the lagislator, and these are external sanctions. Hence sanction is called moral, psychological, legal, or penal, according to the origin or the nature of it.
[Catholic Encyclopedia]

I'd venture to say that we laypeople ought to steer clear of this contranym, for fear of our everlasting souls! <g>

Posted By: Buffalo Shrdlu Re: contranyms, redux - 04/27/03 06:00 PM
well, I certainly don't think I want any penal sanction, do I?

Posted By: maahey Re: contranyms, redux - 04/27/03 06:11 PM
I am *still reading this and I think, I shall give this whole contranym story a wide berth.

The two words that I agree completely, with no confusion at all, in tsuwm's link to the past, were 'overlook and revel'.

This thread got me thinking about what words mean to each one of us and how we relate to them. Some people immediately connect to the fun with words, like many of the frequent posters in the Wordplay and fun corner. Word fun comes so easy to all of them and they are able to play games with words too very well. Me, I struggle with this. Give me a word game and I will sit down with pen and paper and crinkle my forehead and be industious about the acitivity,w which is not the point of the game at all![very big sigh] But, I ENJOY words, I like to dissect them, and the element of words that appeals most to me is the sentiment that they convey. When confronted with metaphors, I am at my happiest. What is it like with you?

EDIT: Thanks, eta! Lovely link!

Posted By: Buffalo Shrdlu Re: contranyms, redux - 04/27/03 06:19 PM
http://www.chaparraltree.com/sflang/darmok.shtml

enjoy.

Posted By: Jackie Re: contranyms, redux - 04/28/03 01:16 AM
Fascinating link, eta! As you know, I love that episode. How on earth the writers ever thought up a culture that communicates by metaphor, I don't know.

When confronted with metaphors, I am at my happiest. But what if they are not confrontational metaphors? What if they merely present themselves meekly?

I find metaphors appealing, as long as I don't have to take time to figure out what is meant. 'An ocean of happiness' gives a much clearer, and more enjoyable, sense than does, for ex., 'very happy'.

Posted By: Jackie Re: redux - 04/28/03 01:30 AM
tsuwm, your use of the word redux got me to thinking about it. It's not a word that I use commonly. Here's what Atomica has to say about it:
re·dux (rç-dŭks')
adj.
Brought back; returned. Used postpositively.

[Latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]


I followed their suggestion to look up duke, and oh my gosh, look at what it says about sense 4, down at the bottom!
duke (dûk, dyûk)
n.
1. A nobleman with the highest hereditary rank, especially a man of the highest grade of the peerage in Great Britain.
2. A sovereign prince who rules an independent duchy in some European countries.
3. (Abbr. D. or Du.) Used as the title for such a nobleman.
4. Slang. A fist. Often used in the plural: Put up your dukes!
5. Botany. A type of cherry intermediate between a sweet and a sour cherry.
intr.v., duked, duk·ing, dukes.
To fight, especially with fists: duking it out.

[Middle English, from Old French duc, from Latin dux, duc-, leader, from dûcere, to lead. N., sense 4, short for Duke of Yorks, rhyming slang for forks, fingers.]



Posted By: wsieber Re: redux - 04/28/03 08:43 AM
Latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke. IMHO, this is slightly misleading. redux was certainly derived from reducere, which does have a common origin (i.e.ducere) with, but does not stem from dux, the duke.



Posted By: Jackie Re: redux - 04/28/03 12:57 PM
Really? Oooh, do you mean the AHD, a real dictionary, might be wrong? How exciting!

Posted By: wofahulicodoc reduxio ad absurdum - 04/28/03 01:27 PM
I so wanted contranym to mean a self-referential self-contradictory word. The paradigm would have been "monosyllabic."

(But I think that's all redux too.)

Is "redux" an old word for "YART" ?

Posted By: Faldage Re: redux - 04/28/03 01:28 PM
the AHD, a real dictionary, might be wrong?

I think "wrong" might be a little strong. As wsieber said, "misleading" might be a little closer to the truth, although to suggest that AHD is saying it comes from the word for duke is probably a little misleading its own se'f. It merely refers us to the entry for duke to see more about the origin of dux. Merriam-Webster dates redux's entry into English to 1873. Might be intersting to see what OED has to say about the matter.

Posted By: Faldage Re: reduxio ad absurdum - 04/28/03 01:55 PM
a self-referential self-contradictory word

It would be nice. There's another word for this, I believe. Perhaps tsuwm could dig it up for us.

Posted By: tsuwm Re: reduxio ad absurdum - 04/28/03 02:37 PM
>a self-referential self-contradictory word

elsewhen, we discussed Hofstadter's coinages autological (self-descriptive) and heterological (non-self-descriptive). 'monosyllabic' is heterological.

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