Much debate has been occasioned on another board I frequent by the expression wrack/rack and ruin. The conclusion was that the version with w was preferred by USns and the version without w was preferred elsewhere but that either was acceptable anywhere.
Any comments from the floor?
Bingley
Wrack and ruin. That's how I'd spell the phrase.
Here are some interesting definitions of the verb "to rack" since I use the phrase "racked my brain" occasionally:
"1 : to torture on the rack
2 : to cause to suffer torture, pain, or anguish
3 a : to stretch or strain violently <racked his brains> b : to raise (rents) oppressively c : to harass or oppress with high rents or extortions
4 : to work or treat (material) on a rack
5 : to work by a rack and pinion or worm so as to extend or contract <rack a camera>
6 : to seize (as parallel ropes of a tackle) together
7 : to place (as pool balls) in a rack
intransitive senses : to become forced out of shape or out of plumb"
From MW online.
Favorite definition of rack as a noun: a mass of usually broken-up wind driven clouds
The hopelessly descriptive AHD2 makes no mention of rack in its definition of wrack. It lists, as its fourth entry for rack, [Variant of WRACK]
AHD4 says wrack, also rack.
with w was preferred by USns and the version without w was preferred elsewhere
And y'all accuse *us of Reader's Digest Spelling©!
My personal view is that a rack is a framework and I would use that spelling in expressions having that connection such as ‘racked with pain’ because this use derives from the torture rack which is a framework. The expression 'nerve-racking' also conveys the idea of nerves stretched to breaking point. Wrack, however, I would relate to wrecking, breaking up and tearing apart. So I would use ‘wrack and ruin’ and ‘wreak havoc’.
In WW's Favorite definition of rack as a noun: a mass of usually broken-up wind driven clouds I would spell that as 'wrack'. If it described a sky with a series of bar shaped clouds with blue sky in between, such as you sometimes see, I would spell that 'rack' due to its resemblence to a rack or grid.
That is just my approach, I'm sure other logic could be applied. I don’t think it matters very much that the two spellings are used with no particular consistency. The context mostly sorts out the meaning.
AHD2 lists wrack as a variant of rack in reference to clouds. It defines it as a thin mass of wind-driven clouds.
Well, ain't that jus' the cat's pajamas!
We US'ns spell the verb wrack and the cloudy noun rack (usually), and the cross-ponders go counterclockwise or clockwise to US, depending upon your point of view...
Don't take me as being typical of cross-pond thinking in this! I stressed it was personal. Never bothered to figure out what others were doing.
Blow winds blow! Wreak wrack Wreck and ruin.
Oh dear, there we were, YARTing away happily and unknowingly. As usual, Jackie had trod there ahead of us.
Sorry Jackie.
While I highly approve of Faldage's bringing back Jackie's post, I deplore the suggestion
that an apology is required for having overlooked something a year old.
And it appears that few of you noticed my post about "vraic". Boohoohoo!
Jackie brought her own thread back, so I felt she might be making a point. Ironic innit.
I did read the 'vraic' posts, but the reference to wrack and vraic being connected was kind of an aside ( jumpers were the main issue as I recall ) so didn't stick. Rather a coincidence there though.
Mercy me, I have run my mouth so much that you newer people could hardly help bringing up some of the same things, Honey. I don't mind a bit. I just remembered looking it up and being so shocked that...(I can hardly believe it now) rack and ruin is actually correct.
rack and ruin is actually correct.
What!? Do I gots to go back and reread that whole thread? How did we come to this little bit of linguistic revisionism?
From my post of 2001 (I added the bolding): "The second wrack refers to wreckage cast ashore, but it is also a verb meaning “to cause the ruin of, wreck.” Thus a business can be wracked by stiff competition. Both of these wrack s have rack as an acceptable spelling variant, so a business can also be racked by competition, and the reader can never be sure if the business is in a state of metaphorical torment or if it is ruined—and in truth it may be both"
Faldage,
Jackie simply meant that the variant, rack and ruin, is also correct.
But I'd side against the variant simply because wrack and ruin makes me think of a ship wreck.That w carries a lot of weight.
And, yes, Jackie, I did read your post above, but I wanted to re-emphasize the point that 'rack and ruin' is an acceptable variant here in the U.S.
Wait a minute; nerve-racking is "correct" but wrack and ruin is "correct".
I think its just generally an acceptable variant. Comes down to personal preference or whim in the end. Logic lies in the mind of the thinker.
In reply to:
but wrack and ruin is "correct".
Well, yes. Obviously.
It was Jackie's rack and ruin is actually correct (italics mine) that led me to believe that she was suggesting that wrack and ruin was incorrect.
I maintain that something's being an acceptable variant does not make it "correct".
What is "correct"? asked jesti;ng Pilate, and did not stay for answer.
And I'm with you, Faldage. I'll stick with 'wrack and ruin'--and remember that Jackie's pasted definition has reminded us that 'rack and ruin' is an 'acceptable variant.' The language: In flux, drifting and blown like a rack across the sky and, in some frowning minds, a by-product of wrack and ruin...