The phenomenon I'm thinking of is the habit of using two different spelling conventions for the same name, even though both languages use the same alphabet. The examples that were put before me are Irish, and were mentioned by a music cataloger here at the library where I work. He was cataloging one of those Alan Lomax folk music compilations of folk music and noticed that the cataloging information included two spellings of some Irish names: Maire O'Sullivan and Máire Ní Shúillebháin. (I hope everyone's software can accomodate my character set) "Sullivan" and "Shúillebháin" are pronounced the same, the former spelling being the one digested to suit English sensibilities. My colleague's question, and he seemed to think I might know someone who knows, was what do you call that? It's not transliteration, since both Irish Gaelic and English use (mostly) the same alphabet. So what izzit? I suggested "Oppressor-compatible Orthography", given the particular situation of English landowner needing to keep records of Irish peasants in a form they, the English, could handle. But is there a term for it really?
It works both ways so I don't think Oppressor-compatible Orthography is a good general term. And it goes beyond names. The example that comes immediately to mind is béisbol.
I can see why you'd balk at transliteration. Maybe tsuwm can come up with something.
transorthographication?
you're right; it's not transliteration but rather a special form of transcription. let's see if we can find a special term for it..
Let's see if we can find a special term for it.."And what's wrong with my coinage?", he petulantly whines.
"And what's wrong with my coinage?", he petulantly whines. Well...you're invisible.
"And what's wrong with my coinage?", he perpetually whines.
I believe I suggested that we try to "find" the special term..
An interesting query and one that confronts us almost everyday in ordinary usage too. There is in written english now, a clear distinction between American English spelling versus English (the Queen's version, from the hallowed island) English! The S's are almost always converted into Z's by the Yankies - realised/ realized; the U's are done away with again by the Americans - favour/ favor. the American style obviously follows the way the word is actually pronounced, but the spelling distinctions are documented ably by the Oxford(Brit) and Webster(US)dictionaries. Oh! and whats the word for it? Am sure I dont know! :-)
S's are almost always converted into Z's
The suffix in question is from the Greek. They used a zeta.
the U's are done away with again by the Americans - favour/ favor. the American style obviously follows the way the word is actually pronounced
I've often wondered, since the American style leaves in only one of the vowels, why doesn't it leave in the 'u'? In my mind/eye/ear, 'ur' represents the sound in words like colo[u]r more accurately than 'or'.
Thanks Faldage; I didnt know that. And Boronia, I do believe I rushed into the pronunciation bit. That also varies doesnt it; the same word is pronounced so differently in both countries with the American style of spelling, mimicking the way the word is pronounced somewhat more closely.
M
I'm not sure about that maahey (welcome, by the way!) I think I pronounce 'favor' just like a Brit pronounces 'favour', though with probably more R.
In this particular case, the vowels are similar.
we do tend to go off track, don't we, birdfeed!?
I think I pronounce 'favor' just like a Brit pronounces 'favour', though with probably more R.
What's an ah?
What's an ah?
It's the singular of elbow.
What's an ah?*nudge* Silly sjm....
What's an ah?
It's the singular of elbow.
Well, I guess I really elbowed for that one, didn't I?
You probably don't know an elbow from your ah. Ah, the science of reflexology!
- Pfranz
Well, sjm, "transorthographication" seems to fill the bill as far as my colleague is concerned. He has repeated it a few times, with a big smirk on his face. He is not ordinarily very effusive; we must have made an impression on him.
Well, sjm, "transorthographication" seems to fill the bill as far as my colleague is concerned. He has repeated it a few times, with a big smirk on his face. He is not ordinarily very effusive; we must have made an impression on him.
Well, thank you, birdfeed. Unhonoured here in my own country, it's gratifying to know that someone, somewhere, has appreciated my humble offering.
sjm, I have an idea for a new, self-deprecating phrase for you, and I quote, all the while copyrighting myself:
"What am I then, birdseed?" ®,™,©
-joe mincemeat
What is who, tsuwm?
- Pfranz
What is who, tsuwm?
"Hu is leading China!"
Dunno... who?
Oh well. No one else has done it, and I've been bursting to share my delight further, so here goes.
(Playwright James Sherman deserves to have his name more widely known:)
***************************************
Playwright Jim Sherman wrote this after Hu Jintao was named Chief of the Communist Party in China.
HU'S ON FIRST by James Sherman
(We take you now to the Oval Office.)
George: Condi ! Nice to see you. What's happening?
Condi: Sir, I have the report here about the new leader of China.
George: Great. Lay it on me.
Condi: Hu is the new leader of China.
George: That's what I want to know.
Condi: That's what I'm telling you.
George: That's what I'm asking you. Who is the new leader of China?
Condi: Yes.
George: I mean the fellow's name.
Condi: Hu.
George: The guy in China.
Condi: Hu.
George: The new leader of China.
Condi: Hu.
George: The Chinaman!
Condi: Hu is leading China!
George: Now whaddya' asking me for?
Condi: I'm telling you Hu is leading China.
George: Well, I'm asking you. Who is leading China?
Condi: That's the man's name.
George: That's who's name?
Condi: Yes.
George: Will you or will you not tell me the name of the new leader of China?
Condi: Yes, sir.
George: Yassir? Yassir Arafat is in China? I thought he was in the Middle East.
Condi: That's correct.
George: Then who is in China?
Condi: Yes, sir.
George: Yassir is in China?
Condi: No, sir.
George: Then who is?
Condi: Yes, sir.
George: Yassir?
Condi: No, sir.
George: Look, Condi. I need to know the name of the new leader of China. Get me the Secretary General of the U.N. on the phone.
Condi: Kofi?
George: No, thanks.
Condi: You want Kofi?
George: No.
Condi: You don't want Kofi.
George: No. But now that you mention it, I could use a glass of milk. And then get me the U.N.
Condi: Yes, sir.
George: Not Yassir! The guy at the U.N.
Condi: Kofi?
George: Milk! Will you please make the call?
Condi: And call who?
George: Who is the guy at the U.N?
Condi: Hu is the guy in China.
George: Will you stay out of China?!
Condi: Yes, sir.
George: And stay out of the Middle East! Just get me the guy at the U.N.
Condi: Kofi.
George: All right! With cream and two sugars. Now get on the phone.
Condi: (picks up the phone) Rice, here.
George: Rice? Good idea. And a couple of egg rolls, too. Maybe we should send some to the guy in China. And the Middle East. Can you get Chinese food in the Middle East?
*****************************************
Clever, cute, funny. I like it. I am so much an unremovable part of life. Be kind. Be careful. Be cool. I am (ever-so-slightly) drunk.
The Mister Milum.
Maybe I'm too jaded for my age, but I figured everyone had received this E-joke by now, so I refrained from posting it. I was wrong. Witness Milum.
I exercised self-control for as long as I could, and then getting no takers in response to my "Hu?" comment couldn't stand it any longer and posted the whole thing. With some hesitation because it might be copyright. At least I gave it its attribution.
Apparently it was written on or about November 22. Remarkably fast global circulation! No copyright notice that I could see elsewhere on net where it appeared, either.
Edit: Maybe not so fast, at that. It's already been two and a half weeks. How time flies when we're not looking.
Gee, I wonder whether Anna S. remembers that long ago in a different life, I used to phone her in a state of mind similar to that of milum. I don't think I ever said anything as profound as "I am so much an unremovable part of life", but it wasn't for want of trying.
Yeah, I got the Hu thing from a few sources, but it still makes me laugh. They could have done that back in '86 or some year, when Hu Yaobang and Hua Guofeng were major officials. Or maybe that's just so much bull deng.
I'd re-read it again, but it's time to go Christmas xiaoping...
Christmas xiaoping
heartily agree with birdfeed, that the Hu story always provokes a laugh and so, yes, thanks Wofa
Have posted nothing but smiles today....must be the season!
Fa la la la la tra la la la