Is there a single English word which defines as neatly the Spanish word "retranca" (which is a Spanish word to describe someone being evasive to commitment)?

Can we really be happy while a buffoon across the pond wants to declare war on anyone who has the same nuclear capacity as him and who doesn't share in his taste for right wing simpleton politics?

Why will my rock cakes insist on being so inadequately risen all the time?

s there a single English word which defines as neatly the Spanish word "retranca" (which is a Spanish word to describe someone being evasive to commitment)?
Men.ba-da-boom.

...ain't it the truth!

I am very taken aback at such a gender generalisation. I had a male pet gerbil once and I can assure you he was very committed indeed.

Me and my lady wife Agnes have been married for 53 years and counting. I weed the garden,make her hot water bottles and sit through Fifteen To One with her all the time.

Gentlemen are not evasive to commitment. Men/boys might be.

Still no answer on the rock cakes or at the dig at Dubya?

What's a rock cake, Maurice?

Is it anything like our fruit cake?

Dear Maurice: Since you ask, I think this is not the place to make fun of the President, even
though many others have done so previously. Unless of course, some realling interesting words
or phrases are involved.

But your inquiry abaout retranca is very much appropriate.As a bit of exaggeration, one may
"crawfish" when confronted with an unwelcome demand for compliance.

I would contend that a forum of intellectual "sparring" and thought is an ideal place to take apart theories and invidivuals of politics and current affairs. Wordplay is an integral part of politics eg. the non sequiter that is the "axis of evil". Whilst it should not become a place for puerile party politics I think all people in authority should be subject to scrutiny from ALL forums be they electronic or otherwise.

The use of the expression "crawfish" is interesting though. Please expand.

Dear Maurice: I quite agree that it is appropriate to discuss the use of words by the leaders.
But not for their policies. I previously made a post about 'crawfish", the basis for whi;ch is
the amazing swift retreat of the crawfish when confronted. It used to be used to describe
a cowboy's backing down when challenged by a gunman of superior prowess.

So the Crawfish suffers from retranca - an inability to see something through.

It's an attribute/vice of many world leaders, don't you think?

Thanks for the new word. I shall share it at the Labour Club next time I'm there.

A rock cake is like fruitcake but harder. try making some

- - - and if yours aren't rising, Maurice, then put them in storage: the time is coming when those of us on the barricades will need every weapon we can lay our hands on.

Maurice,

There are fruit cakes I've tried--just to be polite--that nearly broke my teeth.

If your rock cakes are harder than these fruit cakes, they must be lethal, at least to enamel.

Do tell us what's inside of them even though food threads have been generally avoided on AWAD.

Thanks,
WW

I've always enjoyed Stone Soup, and make it quite often, but I have a feeling Rock Cake is a bit of a leg-pull.

There is a song in the play/movie "Best Little Whorehouse in Texas," sung by just the sort of politician the original post described (and, yes, George W., like Jerry Springer, is NOT representative of Americans on the whole) that was titled "Oooh, I Like to Dance a Little Sidestep!" It involved the politician purposely evading reporters' questions and then bragging about how much non-information he had communicated (sic).

I've heard the term "side-stepper" used in this context.

maurice , i agree..(re: I would contend that a forum of intellectual "sparring" and thought is an ideal place to take apart theories and invidivuals of politics and current affairs.

but this isn't really a a forum of intellectual "sparring" and thought -- even though a lot of that goes on... this is anarchic (Jackie, the only moderator here, does the least bit of moderating possible, and is extremely reluctant to ever close a thread, and getting her to delete a post takes an extreme situation) and largely self moderating forum for discusions about words and word use.

over time, we have realized that politial discussions, by there very nature, tend to get heated, and we like cool head here!

now if you want to mock a particular word or phrase of Dubya, (see nuclear!) go right ahead.. if you hear a politial or public figure of any any stripe using (or mis-using) an interesting word, and want to discuss the word in question, we will.

if you think words have been mis-used, or there meaning has been total warped by the political process, we can discuss how 'double speak' is alive in well in the political world... but if you want to discuss politics... i suggest you find a political forum.
(but keep coming back here with the words you find there that interest you, since they might well interest us too!)

you state:I think all people in authority should be subject to scrutiny from ALL forums be they electronic or otherwise.
another bit of anarchy there isn't there? or is it? if every forum is a political forum, (at your wish and command) then your purpose for posting here is to undermine the stated purpose of this forum, and to change it from a word related forum (one that many of us enjoy, as it is) into an yet other political forum..that is not anarchy, that is revolution, with you as the leader!

well it's curious.. how anarchy works.. we are successful at being a word forum, without a moderator telling how to behave... generaly the post here are not lewd, or nasty, or hurtful..again, all self control on the part of the people who post here. i think you'll find us very effective at moderating and resisting change, with out any external moderator enforcing the rules.
(rules? we ain't got no stinkin rules!)

the discussion on feminism, which was getting way to political, well it got stopped.. Vika and i have exchanged PM's, (several during the time the thread was active) and agreed to disagree, and to end the thread, since this really isn't the place for it.. each of us, continued to communicate via, PM's, making sure that the discusion did not become a issue between us... and musick came in, and 'turned' the discussion to a more lighthearted one.. and i took the hint.
and that was in Misc, not in the Q & A about Wordsthreads, were thing are a bit looser!

i really would have prefered to post this privately... but you have elected to not accept private messages. and my post is rather heavy handed, but then tact and finese are not my strong point! but i read you post as a bit of challenge.
but i could be wrong, (see bowlderizing!) goodness knows, i have been wrong many times! Still, inspite of that, i want you to stay around and enjoy our word play, and join in.
(i realized, i tend to use ! (exclamation points) the way some people use and , to indicate a lightheartedness that i think my post is missing-- i have edited out half of them, and still it reads like a teen age school girl... as you stumble across the, think of them as commands to remember, i am trying to be smiling, and cheerful in my tone)

Thank you for that extensive post.
I appreciate that wordplay and the exploration of words is the purpose for this site and it is neither the forum for polemic nor for ideological posturing or political point-scoring.
However I would still contend that the way in which we think about words and how we use them for whatever desired outcome we wish and politics is for good or for ill a significant part of this, if we define politics as how we think about the world and how we plan our economies, our services, and our systems.
Whilst this is not the venue for politics as such, the relationship between words and politics and the use and abuse of the nuance and power of words is a vital and, I think, interesting angle to explore on these pages.
I hope I have not been abusing the ethos of this site with political references but I think the wider discussions of words relating to politics is fascinating and the freedom to discuss these is valuable. Politics should only be a dirty word in the sense of party point-scoring. Some might say "the personal is the political" and that politics permeates every attitude and action which may or may not be the case. However, I would suggest that politics should be a part of the rich tapestry of subjects discussed and looked into on this site in relation to how words are used and abused.

Must go and do some gardening.

Dear Maurice; Your command of English is impressive. I quite agree that there are many
words relating to politics well worth discussing. Please propose some. Tsuwm gave "psephology"
as the study of elections. Hope I spelled it correctly. Candidates try to exhibit charisma.
Chads complicate ballot tallying. Carry on from there, please.

Gerrymandering. Filibustering. Pork-barrelled politics. Tories (there a story behind that).

Any more ideas? There are plenty of bizarre "isms" to explore particularly on the left.

Hi Maurice -

just to go back to your original post - what about "recalcitrant"? a favourite word of mine....although now that I look up the exact meaning as given by the Cdn Oxford, it seems to be "resisting discipline or authority; obstinately disobedient" - so perhaps that's not quite what you're looking for....?

just the suggestion that popped into my head while reading your original post....I always thought it incorporated some idea of mulish reluctance, as opposed to out-and-out disobedience.

If I remember correctly "calx" is heel, and recalcitrant means to kick like a mule.

Sounds like too committed to commitment.

How bout waffler?

What is the etymology of retranca? If we could take a look at its own word history, it may be easier to figure out possible synonyms.

Dear WW: There was a caballero called El Retranco, because, like the Chatanooga Choo-choo,
he always..............on time.

Dunno about the etymology but the meaning seems to be connected more with hiding things than with avoiding commitment. There is, in my Diccionario Usual, another meaning, freno, given that translates out as a part of the bridle that goes in the horse's mouth to control it. Another definition for freno is a part of a machine that limits or stops movement.

Retranca sounds a lot like retrench, meaning to cut back, particularly on expenditure. Is there a connection?

The trench in retrench comes from the Latin truncare, to mutilate. Spanish tranquear means to make a big leap. Doesn't sound like they're related.

I think the cut back on expenditures meaning of retrench is a figurative meaning derived from the military idea of falling back and digging new trenches. I got thinking that the idea of waffling that Maurice mentions in the opening of this thread may derive from being limited in motion, being limited in ability to make that last step necessary for a commitment. Portuguese definitions of retranca include a blocking of a goal in soccer and category, identifying marker. The lovely ASp will get back with us on that latter Portuguese definition.

freno is brake in Italian.

But "frenetic" means having no brakes, behaviourwise.

Atomica gives as the source for frenetic:

Middle English frenetik, from Old French frenetique, from Latin phrenēticus, from Greek phrenītikos, from phrenītis, brain disease, from phrēn, mind.

I see the connection with phrenology now.

Hey, does anyone know what governs whether or not words with ultimately Greek origins keep their ph- at the front? Is frenetic spelled with an f because it came through French? (No, wait, they use ph too, as in phoque.) Anyone?

Phrenology reminds me of ancient joke about the guy who was a nut about phrenology.
When he tried to break a date because tempted to go to a lecture on phrenology, his
girl friend said: "Well, it's your choice. Heads or tail."

Dear Maurice: a spelling bee word "tergiversation" reminded me of your "retranca"
tergiversate
vi.
L tergiversatus, pp. of tergiversari, to turn one‘s back, decline, shift < tergum, the back (see fol.) + versari, to turn: see VERSE6
1 to desert a cause, party, etc.; become a renegade; apostatize
2 to use evasions or subterfuge; equivocate
ter#gi[ver[sa4tion
n.
ter4gi[ver[sa#tor
n.

An interesting set of posts. Retranca is more slippery and evasive than an aggressive withdrawl or refusal so evasions or subterfuge is entirely appropriate in this context.

It is a very powerful word and I think it should be introduced into our shared language as a matter of priority.

more slippery and evasive than an aggressive withdrawl or refusal

Sounds like waffler comes close. BTW, what variety of Spanish is this from? It doesn't seem to be the standard defintion in any dictionary I've looked it up in. Haven't checked my Diccionario de Mejicanismos yet.

My Pequeño Larousse Ilustrado does not list this definition, either, although it does give a fig. meaning that roughly translates: to be extremely cautious.

Checked my Diccionario de Mejicanismos and it goes with the brake thangie but also list a definition that I can't quite get a handle on. It includes the word ataharre in a definition that seems otherwise to be referring to the south end of a north facing horse. I am unable to find anything anywhere on the word ataharre.

In reply to:

---

ataharre: Correa de cuero que sujeta la silla, y rodea los ijares y ancas de la caballería para impedir que el aparejo se corre hacia adelante-Pequeño Larousse Ilustrado

---

Sounds to me like the ataharre is the cinch and maybe something more. It is a leather strap that attaches to the saddle, runs between the ribs and the hips of the horse, goes around the rump (presumably the strap that goes under the horse's tail) that prevents the saddle from sliding forward. I'm not up on the terminology in English. Anyone know what it's called?

a leather strap that attaches to the saddle...that prevents the saddle from sliding forward...know what it's called?

That's called the cinch.

...isn 't it?

For more information than we are likely ever to need about saddles, take a look at
http://www.rrvfsbo.com/articles/wessadpts.htm .
And that's just for western saddles. There's apparently an English saddle, too, which is a horse of another color entirely.

crupper
n.
5ME crouper < OFr cropiere < crope, rump < Frank *kruppa: see CROP6
1 a padded leather strap passed around the base of a horse‘s tail and attached to the saddle or harness to keep it from moving forward
2 the croup of a horse
3 [Colloq.] the buttocks

Aha! That's it! Muchas gracias, Dr. Bill.

crupper n.
1 a padded leather strap passed around the base of a horse‘s tail and attached to the saddle or harness to keep it from moving forward

...clearly exactly what was asked for, and not even mentioned on the site I found. I wonder how much variability/idiosyncracy there is in the field ?

Dear wofahulicodoc: Remember the wide gulf between English and Western riding styles
I believe "crupper" is and English term. I don't ever remember seeing one on a Western
saddle. And if there were one, the cowboys would ;have called it something else.

Incidentally, there is a related term - "come a cropper" meaning to fall off your horse;
or as a metaphor to have some notable misadventure.

So this is what they meant by señal del ataharre por debajo de la cola, en las nalgas de la caballería?

...the wide gulf between English and Western riding styles.
I believe "crupper" is an English term.

Yes. On the other hand, the URL I cited sited? or even sighted? :-) has another section on English saddles, and "crupper" isn't mentioned on that part either. So perhaps it has another name too, used by some people somewhere...