I've asked elsewhere but have yet to receive an answer which is both logical and convincing so let me try here.

Just when is the letter Y counted as a vowel?

I was taught that a Y was a vowel when it added a syllable to a word (as in "brightly") or when it was the only vowel sound in the word (as in "fly"). This means that the Y in "boy" would NOT be a vowel. Unfortunately, I've also been instructed (more recently - maybe this is significant?) that the Y in "boy" IS a vowel since it alters the pronunciation of the O. The Y is pronounced as would an I in that place ("boy" = "boi"), hence its status as a vowel.

Any clarification would be appreciated.

rhythm.

sorry, I should have read your post more carefully before I answered.
but at least you don't have to worry about the why and wherefores of y with rhythm!

Y is a dipthong, actually two vowels strung together. Say "you" slowly. eee-ooo. Say "yet" slowly -- eee et.


W is similar. There is no consonant sound. Example "won't". 000 ohnt. Weather ooo-ether.

Neither w or y are consonants.

edited: diphthong. A typo, really it was!

When you *don't say these words slowly (or even when you do) you don't say oooo-ont or eeee-oo. The sound is called a glide or a semi-vowel. R also qualifies as a semi-vowel in many varieties of English. Y is a vowel when it isn't acting as a semi-vowel.

I'm still not sure I get it.

The Y in "you" (or anywhere, for that matter) can't be a dipthong all by itself, can it? A dipthong is a combination of two vowels to make a sound distinct from either one individually.

If I understand the last post correctly, the Y in "boy" would be a semi-vowel (a new term for me) since it glides (ditto) with the O. This is what I had originally been taught was a dipthong as in the OI in "boil."

So. The Y's in "boy," "toy," "boytoy" etc are, at best, "semi-vowels"? But if you had a gun to your head and absolutely had to choose between Vowel or Consonant, which would it be? I'm hoping for the latter but God knows I've had my world turned upside down before.

So sweat on the Y in "fly" and "brightly" and the rest. They're vowels without question or argument. (Right? Please?)

And, by a similar no-other-vowel-present rule I also learned back when "Elvis" meant Presley and not Costello, the M in "rhythm" is the second vowel of that word. Every syllable HAS TO have a vowel of some sort. Or, again, so I was taught...

Thanks mucho for all past and future enlightenment.