which do y'all say? And if you say "q-pon" - well, why? since when is "cou" ever pronounced "q"?

just curious! all this talk of envelope ahnvelope reminded me - there used to be a clever radio commercial in which there were two voices, and one said "envelope" and "coupon" and the other said "ahnvelope" and "q-pon" - the two were always correcting each other. I think there was at least one more word in there with two accepted pronunciations they corrected each other on....

but WHY Q-PON?! I don't understand....

never thought about it, but I am guilty of q-pon...

I hang my head in shame...

People say q-pon rather than coo-pon??

Never ever heard that one, MG.

The coo- sound in "coupon" (= Fr "cut thing" more or less) comes straight from the French, as in "couteau" (coo-TOE) = knife.

I could see "cou-" being anglicized as "cow-" (like in count, out, amount etc), but not as "cue-".

Then again, stranger things happen. Especially over the Other Side.

You wanna hear strange? I used to go out with a Brit who inserted the 'cue' sound in Vancouver - Van-Q-ver!

To answer your question, I clip coo-ponz.

I use both and apologize for neither and I don't even care if it's not "logical".

I used to go out with a Brit who inserted the 'cue' sound in Vancouver - Van-Q-ver!



My condolences, boronia. used to is a relief.

next thing you know, I'll be saying "noo-q-ler"...

aaaghh, the humanity!

Or coo-tie pie

I use both and apologize for neither and I don't even care if it's not "logical".

I love you.

I use both and apologize for neither and I don't even care if it's not "logical".

that's what I meant to say. yeah, that's it. really...

I love you.

Dyuuuude!

Or coo-tie pie

Now I love you too, Faldage. Will AnnaS share?! (didn't make me cry but did make me laugh out loud!) (which reminds me of another question....)

http://www.yesterdayland.com/popopedia/shows/toys/ty1013.php?search=cootie
Anyone remember this game?

Or coo-tie pie

Very coute.

In Michigan, I hear both pronunciations with about equal frequency, and I use both. I've attempted to discern whether there is a pattern to when I use one or the other, but it seems to be random.

I say q-pon because my mom said it that way. I never thought it had anything to do with the letter q though. Maybe it's the glide-vs-no-glide thing which happens with a long u such as:

Toos-day/Tyoos-day (Tuesday)
Du-tee/Dyoo-tee (Duty)
Stoo-pid/Styoo-pid (stupid)
Nooz/Nyooz (news)
Lood/Lyood (lewd)

...except that the glide-no-glide usage follows some sort of East/West side of the Atlantic pattern, and this doesn't seem to. Now I have a question about this: it can happen with long u after N, D, T, L... Has anyone else seen this split with any other word following a K sound (a hard c or a k)? I can't think of any. (It doesn't have to be at the start, necessarily.) Fr'example, does anyone say jocular as jok-oo-lar or do we all say jok-yoo-lar?

since when is "cou" ever pronounced "q"?

"Coupon" comes from L. colaphus, meaning a blow with a fist -> LL colpus -> OF colp -> F coup, leading to couper, meaning to divide with a blow or stroke -> coupon, meaning a portion which is cut off -> English. Coupon was first recorded in English as meaning a detachable certificate in 1822.

The English word was originally pronounced "koo pon". The variant pronunciation of "kyoo pon" developed in American English, and according to The American Heritage Dictionary, was perhaps through association with words such as cube, cupid, and cute, and both pronunciations are acceptable.

Here's a pretty picture of the sound generated by coopon and cyupon: http://www.asel.udel.edu/icslp/cdrom/vol1/683/a683.pdf

And a place to put in your two cents regarding variably pronounced words: http://hyde.park.uga.edu/survey.html

Other words which I am used to hearing variably pronounced: roof, data, route.

through association with words such as cube, cupid, and cute

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. There's no etymological reason for the pronunciation with the -yoo- sound but people usually learn to speak before they learn etymology (or spelling)! And it fits the cube, cute pattern in that sense.

and both pronunciations are acceptable

I know we've talked about this before but you gotta wonder who decides acceptable and how.

The acceptability of usages is per usage panels assembled by the dictionaries. You can find the composition of the panel in the front of whatever dictionary you are using; the panels are typically composed of a selection of editors, linguists, writers and such.

I was wondering just how popular a pronunciation or spelling must be before it makes it into the dictionary. Browsing Quinion's page this morning I found a sort-of answer:

If enough English speakers decide that some word or phrase has value, to the extent that those who encounter it are likely to need to consult the dictionary in search of its meaning, then it is put into new editions. (Emphasis mine)

Found at: http://www.quinion.com/words/articles/howdowords.htm

So that's the vaguely-defined threshold, in case anyone besides me was curious.

I have to admit that, if I heard "q-pon" over here, I would immediately think that the speaker had come from a rough-ish background and was trying (unsuccessfully!) to sound "posh." It really isn't in use in the UK, I think.

But the meaning would be clear enough, so I don;t think it would warrant inclusion in a dictionary, using the "quinion test". So how has it got into Spareye's dictionary, one wonders?

>If enough English speakers decide that some word or phrase has value, to the extent that those who encounter it are likely to need to consult the dictionary in search of its meaning, then it is put into new editions.

as an example (no value judgment made), the review edition (online) of OED has included the word 'webzine' (it's their word-of-the-day today). [no entry for 'google' yet, other than the cricket sense..]

The difference is simple:

A "KOO-pon" will get you a maximum of 50 cents off whatever is being sold.
A "Q-pon" has no limit to its worth.

The same rule applies to "vase" (rhyming with "face") defined as a jar in which to stick flowers, compared with "vase" (pronounced "vaahz") meaning something from the Ming dynasty which, when you see it on a museum floor, you immediately pick up any two-year-olds you may have brought with you.

By way of illustration, there was a men's clothing store (somewhere in the states, I forget where) who offered a Q-pon worth $100 off a new suit. The kicker was that this Q-pon was posted on a highway billboard and anyone having the moxie to "clip" it would not only be risking life and limb but would also be breaking the law as well. Don't know if they ever got any takers.