Wordsmith.org
Posted By: sanjayrag Uncasual? - 10/25/02 03:00 PM
Is "uncasual" a word? Neither my COD nor m-w.com lists it, but I have seen it being used, and it seems like it ought to be allowed. :-)

Thanks,

--Sanjay

Posted By: Buffalo Shrdlu Re: Uncasual? - 10/25/02 03:03 PM
welcome, sanjayrag!

why wouldn't you use "formal"?


Posted By: wwh Re: Uncasual? - 10/25/02 03:08 PM
I think there ought to be a word for dress that is not casual, but not necessarily formal.
One can look out of place at a beach party in a business suit which is not actually formal.
But I don't have a good word for it.

Posted By: FishonaBike Re: Uncasual? - 10/25/02 03:15 PM
dress that is not casual, but not necessarily formal

Over this side of the Pond we just talk about "smart casual" wear, Bill. Suits me .

I think uncasual has a place as an ironic term, though.

Think about the difference between:

1. He had a formal manner.

2. He had a casual manner.

3. He had an uncasual manner.

To me it implies that the subject is trying to look casual (and relaxed) but is failing to carry it off. Stilted, perhaps.





Posted By: sanjayrag Re: Uncasual? - 10/25/02 03:17 PM
Well, it made a big difference in my Scrabble game last night. I just want to know if "uncasual" exists in any dictionary. Re usage I can see its application when you want a different shade of meaning for "formal".

Posted By: tsuwm Re: Uncasual? - 10/25/02 05:52 PM
well, according to Official Scrabble® Player's Dictionary, 3rd Edition, you lose.

http://www.hasbroscrabble.com/pl/page.toolbox/dn/home.cfm

unsurprisingly, it's not in W3 (same publisher); I don't have OED access at the moment, but can check later..
Posted By: musick Re: Uncasual? - 10/25/02 07:02 PM
Then who in their *right mind would allow "informal" into the fold? [ducking-e]

Posted By: AnnaStrophic Re: Uncasual? - 10/25/02 07:06 PM
Are you suggesting 'incasual" might be a better alternative?

Dyoooood!

Posted By: AnnaStrophic Re: Uncasual? - 10/25/02 07:10 PM
I don't have OED access at the moment...

Show-off.

Posted By: of troy Re: Uncasual? - 10/25/02 07:14 PM
no, i think he is just pointing out the unfair, illogical stance.. the allow formal and informal, and (formal and) casual, but not (casual and) uncasual..

formal and informal is not the same as casual..

I might formally adress someone as Dr Smith, in a public setting, but in private i would be informal, and call them Joan. but i might also be casual, and call someone Dr. Joan, (or as we do here, Dr bill!) uncasual is a bit harder, but i see it as valid word. (scrabble dictionary not withstanding!)

Posted By: musick Prosistent? - 10/25/02 07:35 PM
I love when people put words in my mouth... but, then again, I've been wooed into a loving mood.

------------

To keep from not being inconsistent, I gotta go with AnnaF assesment of this one. 'Incasual' even sounds better... just like 'unconsistent' woodent.

I'm always willing to let my ears reign over logic...

Posted By: AnnaStrophic Re: Prosnickety! - 10/25/02 07:43 PM
I'm always willing to let my ears reign over logic...

Dyoood!

Posted By: of troy Re: Prosistent? - 10/25/02 08:06 PM
dearest love, i started by saying no, i think he is saying and so, made it clear your words were open to being interpted differently, and that what i was expressing was my understanding (how ever warped that might be,) not pehaps not your intended meaning! we all know how easy it is to have a misunderstanding. tweedledee and tweedledum!

i am tone deaf, (as well as thick headed) but i think 'incasual' is horrid! i will support uncasual, but not incasual!

and perhaps, since my words were taken so kindly, i will continue to woo you.. but i am as apt at wooing as i am as spelling so it likely to be a strange romance!

Posted By: tsuwm Re: Uncasual? - 10/25/02 08:12 PM
...the OED reveals that uncasual was used at least once in the dimly viewed past, with an olde spelling:

1618 SYLVESTER Panaretus 781 Besides th' off-cutting of All Passages,..Is even to conquer by uncasuall course.


Posted By: tsuwm Re: un- - 10/25/02 08:20 PM
but perhaps of more interest is this:

Un- is freely prefixed to adjectives of all kinds, except where a Latin form in in-, etc., has definitely established itself in common use. Both forms, however, may co-exist, and in some cases a new formation with un- has been introduced when that with in- has acquired a connotation which it is desirable to avoid. The form with un- is then purely negative, while the other may have almost a positive sense, e.g. un-moral in contrast with immoral. (When the form with un- has similarly acquired a positive implication, the simple negative or neutral sense is expressed by the use of non- or not-.) There is also considerable restriction in the use of un- with short simple adjectives of native origin, the negative of these being naturally supplied by another simple word of an opposite signification. There is thus little or no tendency now to employ such forms as unbroad, undeep, unwide, unbold, unglad, ungood, unstrong, unwhole, unfew, etc., which freely occur in the older language. On the other hand, derivative forms in -al, -ant, -ar, -ary, -ent, -ful, -ic, -ical, -ile, -ish, -ive, -ly, -ory, -ous, -y, etc., are too numerous to be completely recorded. The general character of the less usual or permanent of these and other adjectival forms is illustrated by the following examples, which are a severly restricted selection, and could be indefinitely increased by the addition of less noteworthy material.
In dictionaries of various dates many formations are given of which no real instance has been found. Levins (1570) has unhateful, unprecious. Florio (1598 and 1611) renders equivalent Italian words in in- by such forms as unavailful, unbrittle, uncontinuall, uncoy, unempty, unfrail, unnice, unoffensible, unopen, unplenteous, unshrill, unvalorous. Ash (1775) gives unalphabetical, unattendant, uncohesive, uncompatible, uncompressible, uncompulsive, etc. (about 80 in all). Later dictionaries (Webster, Worcester, etc.), with or without indication of source, have the entries unabundant, unbiographical, uncogent, uncollectible, undeceptive, undeliberative, etc.
Recent formations include: unadult, un-African, unairworthy, unambivalent, unarcadian, unarchæological, un-Australian, unbitchy, unblameworthy, unblasé, unbureaucratic, un-Byronic, uncerebral, uncharismatic, unchic (also absol.), un-Chinese, unchipper, unchoosy, un-Christmassy, uncomfy, uncomposite, uncomradely, unconscient, uncool [esp. cool a. 4e] (also absol.), uncooperative, uncosy, uncranky, uncreditworthy, uncuddlesome, uncuddly, un-Darwinian, undeducible, un-Dickensian, undimensional, undisastrous, undoctrinaire, undynamic, unecological, uneconomic, unecstatic, unecumenical, unegoistic, unegotistic, unegotistical, unerotic, unetymological, unexotic, unfaery (poet.), unfeline, unfeminist, unflamboyant, unflashy, unfond, unfresh, unfurtive, un-Gaelic, ungay, ungimmicky, unglamorous, ungroovy, unhep (also absol.), unhip (also absol.), unhors(e)y, unideological, unintrospective, unirksome, unironic, unironical, un-Islamic, un-Italian, un-Jamesian, un-Japanese, unjingoistic, unkeen (also absol.), unkosher, unlegendary, unlocal, unmarital, un-Marxist, unmawkish, unmeritocratic, unneurotic, unodoriferous, unopen, unpacifist, unphonemic, unphon(e)y (also absol.), unphotogenic, unplatonic, unpolemical, unpolicemanly, unpositive, unprestigious, unpriggish, unprivate, un-Proustian, unpugnacious, unradiogenic, unresilient, unrevolutionary, unrisky, unroadworthy, un-Russian, unscenic, unseductive, unselective, unsemantic, unsexy, un-Shelleyan, unsnobbish, unsorry, un-Spanish, unspecial, unspectacular, unstarchy, unsterile, unstiff, unstuffy, unsycophantic, unsymmetric, untendentious, untense, untherapeutic, unthistly, unticklish, untogether, untouristy (also absol.), untraditional, untrendy, unurgent, unutilitarian, unviable, un-Victorian, unviolent, unvisual, un-Western, un-with-it, unworthwhile, unyoung.


[usage examples abound]

Posted By: musick Bull - [wink] - le - 10/25/02 08:22 PM
Rocky and I are in the middle of a bachelor party, so today there is only *so much love to go around...

----------

Helen -
A) I saw the "no I think..." part from you,
2) "...intended meaning!"???
&) Does 'uncomprehensible' sound less horrid?

Love is found with many threads attached...

Posted By: Buffalo Shrdlu Re: un-in-non - 10/25/02 08:36 PM
(When the form with un- has similarly acquired a positive implication, the simple negative or neutral sense is expressed by the use of non- or not-.)
I had wondered about non, but maybe that's really a fourth sense. casual, uncasual, non-casual, formal.
oops, five: informal.

hey, what about unformal?


feel the love...

Posted By: tsuwm Re: un-in-non - 10/25/02 08:42 PM
so we can make this into a continuum, thus:

formal<>incasual<>uncasual<>nonformal<>noncasual<>unformal<>informal<>casual



Posted By: Buffalo Shrdlu Re: un-in-non - 10/25/02 08:47 PM
thanks, tsyouwm!

hey, that's why it can be q-pon!

sorry for the cross-thread.

Posted By: of troy Re: un-in-non - 10/25/02 08:55 PM
Ok--if we can have formal<>incasual<>uncasual<>nonformal<>noncasual<>unformal<>informal<>casual-- how is it that guys think 3 pairs of shoes will do for all occations, and sometimes actualy express the idea that women are crazy for having a dozen (or 6 dozen, but let's not quibble over numbers)

clearly, you need at least 8 pairs of shoes.. one each of
formal<>incasual<>uncasual<>nonformal<>noncasual<>unformal<>informal<>casual style!


Posted By: Faldage Re: Bull - [wink] - le - 10/25/02 09:27 PM
in the middle of a bachelor party

Am I invited?

Posted By: musick Re: Bull - [wink] - le - 10/25/02 09:44 PM
Sure! Are you a batchlore?

Posted By: sanjayrag Re: Uncasual? - 10/25/02 10:14 PM
tsuwm,

Thanks for the OED research. I guess there are too many legal un- formations to list in the Scrabble dictionary.

Thanks again.

--
...the OED reveals that uncasual was used at least once in the dimly viewed past, with an olde spelling:

1618 SYLVESTER Panaretus 781 Besides th' off-cutting of All Passages,..Is even to conquer by uncasuall course.

Posted By: FishonaBike Re: un- - 10/27/02 01:31 PM
a new formation with un- has been introduced when that with in- has acquired a connotation which it is desirable to avoid

- For instance if you want to emphasise the word, making an ironic use of opposites? Using a "new" (or little-known) construction such as uncasual works well in that sort of context, I think.

You can also bring in double-negatives to good effect:
"He was not uncasual"


Posted By: Jackie Re: un- - 10/28/02 01:51 AM
"He was not uncasual"
Shona, that's litotes. [proud of herself for remembering something for once e]

Posted By: FishonaBike Re: un- - 10/28/02 11:55 PM
litotes

Oh yes! Well remembered, J.

And I should have remembered myself:
http://wordsmith.org/board/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=words&Number=80372


Posted By: Jackie Re: un- - 10/29/02 01:18 AM
And I should have remembered myself:
Great minds are alike, I see. [conspiratorial smile]

Posted By: belligerentyouth Re: un- - 10/30/02 11:45 AM
uncasual?

No, it isn't.

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