Greetings,
Would any of you know the origin(s) of the phrase, "out of whack." It's generally meant to mean something that's not lined up or malfunctioning. "This phone is out of whack." A whack, however, is like a hit or a blow. Any ideas?
Kindest regards,
elistar01
Of course. Whack is what keeps something in working condition, and when it doesn't have any more, it doesn't work and is thus "out of whack".
Greetings,
Ahh, so we apply the whack, tighten the bolts and let 'er rip. Where did this silliness begin?
Kindest regards,
Elistar01
Belated welcome to you, elistar. I have delayed this
deliberately, 'cause I wanted to have the answer for you.
But alas, my sensibilities are now out of whack--I couldn't
find it on the 'net or the library resources.
The closest I came may or may not be a hint: a ref. to
baseball, where the next batter takes a whack. If whack in this sense indicates doing things in a certain order, then
out of whack would mean out of order, or wrong.
one of the senses given by M-W, without any gloss, is: condition, state; this almost looks like a back-formation from the slang phrase -- something is out of whack here!
Where did this silliness begin?
Well, I believe it dates back to Sumerian times, when artisans kept their carts well oiled with an amalgam of ground up wheat, pig lard, river muck. The name "whack" came about from combining the "wh" of wheat, the "a" of lard and the "ck" of muck, thus the wheels of their carts were kept running with a healthy application of "whack". This was a rather runny concoction, so after a few days they would have to re-apply the "whack". Most well-run businesses would keep a bucket or two of back-up whack with them, but these supplies could soon be used up, and they would be "out of whack".
Today's capricious piffle is brought to you by the letter "N" and the number "5".
Greetings,
Whoa, then! This is an astounding reply and precisely what I was looking for. You may ask why I would look for such deeeeep meaning over such a cliche phrase. Suffice to say, it's amazing what you can quibble about over caffeinated beverages. Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
Kindest regards,
elistar
why I would look for such deeeeep meaning over such a cliche phrase. Suffice to say, it's amazing what you can quibble about over caffeinated beverages.Hmm-do I detect the presence of a(nother) prankster in our
midst?? Goody! From now on I shall have my Wellies on!
(for the deeeeep stuff, of course!)
Greetings,
Okay, the baseball explanation has some potential logic to it. Otherwise we'd have to give the Sumerians great credit for their command of English words: wheat, lard and muck.
Kindest regards,
Elistar
Otherwise we'd have to give the Sumerians great credit for their command of English words: wheat, lard and muck
No no, see, all of the words translated quite nicely together. . .
Today's capricious piffle is brought to you by the letter "N" and the number "5".
Thanks, N and 5. We appreciate your generosity. Smiles are well-earned on a Monday morning.
Brandon
If you didn't know, N and 5 are also official sponsors of this year's Olympic games in Sydney, Australia.
If you didn't know, N and 5 are also official sponsors of this year's Olympic games in Sydney, Australia.
Not to be confused with Sydney, Arkansas, which is hosting this year's Funny Car races, officially sponsored by WD 40.
Not to be confused with Sydney, Arkansas, which is hosting this year's Funny Car races, officially sponsored by WD 40.
Slightly YARTish, but: Do the Arkansans who are resident in Sydney refer to themselves as "Sydneysiders"? That is the designation for residents of Sydney, New South Wales, and it would be interesting to know if Sydney Arkansas has its own geographic sobriquet.
More and more intrigued that nobody so far has made the connection between "out of whack" and "whacky", I begin to suspect this is deliberate, to conceal the whackiness of the debate.
More and more intrigued that nobody so far has made the connection between "out of whack" and "whacky", I begin to suspect this is deliberate, to conceal the whackiness of the debate.I suspect that no from the States has made that connection, because here we spell that word wacky. So for me to have
made that connection, I would have been wackified (hi, Tsuwm).
But, speaking of across-the-pond differences, that reminds me of whine and whinge. I think they have essentially the
same meaning, but very different pronunciations.
Greetings,
So far, I count two explanations for the origin of the phrase, "out of whack." The most colorful attributes the Sumerians, the other suggests baseball. Do not the Brits have a ball game predating baseball that may have provided the origin?
Kindest regards,
Elistar
okay, there is some evidence that whack, as a noun, had the sense of condition or state before the slang phrase was coined. W3 gives this citation:
<The tycoon is is fine whack -John Hay, 1905>
...Do the Arkansans who are resident in Sydney refer to themselves as "Sydneysiders"? Nope, when the town was settled by a pair of disgruntled Australians during the Great Sheep Famine in the last century, they at first called themselves "Sydneyoutsiders." Now the locals pretty much just go by "Bubba."
>during the Great Sheep
Famine in the last century
AS, just a reminder that this sort of phrase is now ambiguous...
>during the Great Sheep
Famine in the last century
AS, just a reminder that this sort of phrase is now ambiguous...
I'll let Jackie handle this one....
I'm sure I don't know what tsuwm means. We studied the
Great Sheep Famine when I was but a girl. We learned that
the Aussies had to go Out Back and feed those poor little
sheep kiwis to keep them alive. Ewe do know, don't ewe,
that I would never try to pull the wool over your eyes?
please. . .no more sheep jokes
We learned that the Aussies had to go Out Back and feed those poor little sheep kiwis to keep them alive. 'Fess up, Jackie, you're one of those Yanks who thought that the Sydney Harbour Bridge links Sydney and Auckland, aren't you?
"Aussies feeding their sheep kiwis" - pray, tell, where would these Aussies obtain the kiwis? It's really hard for me to write "kiwis" since I have got so used to following the accepted standard Maori usage that does not add "s" to plurals - hence one Maori, two Maori, one kiwi, two kiwi. "Kiwi" on the other hand, as a designation for NZers, that we
do owe to Aussies. It was first used by Aussie diggers in the ANZAC campaigns, and stuck. Having become Anglicised, "Kiwi" does get an "s" - I am one of nearly four million Kiwis.
I am one of nearly four million Kiwis.Oh-h, Maxie, she said, batting her eyelashes, then your
ancestors were some of those
heroes, weren't they??
Making the ultimate sacrifice for the good of their country.
Only instead of cannon fodder, they were sheep fodder.
In reply to:
>during the Great Sheep
Famine in the last century
AS, just a reminder that this sort of phrase is now ambiguous...
In reply to:
I'm sure I don't know what tsuwm means.
While not being a tsuwmologist or a Sumerologist, I think the ambiguity far from being over there in a box, lies in the words "last century". Do we follow the more logical count whereby this is the last year of the twentieth century, or do we say "Vox populi vox dei" and count it as the first year of the twenty-first century?
Bingley
Do we follow the more logical count whereby this is the last year of the twentieth centuryDo you mean that there are actually people who think that this
isn't still the twentieth century? Poor benighted souls, I pity them.
<If you didn't know, N and 5 are also official sponsors of this year's Olympic games in Sydney, Australia.>
I can't remember who it was who pointed out the fatuousness of the habit of saying "London, England" - so we don't get confused with London, Ontario?!!? Unfortunately I do think its a US-inspired habit, butone non-Americans should definitely not emulate - reasonable enough if you need to differentiate between Washington state and Washington DC, I suppose.
Bingley, mea culpa ... I should have been precise and written "the 19th century." I am among those who will be celebrating the beginning of the 21st century and the third millennium A.D. on Jan 1, 2001.
And here I was considering tsuwm was pointing out a completely different ambiguity, one which the well-bred lady in me won't specify.
I can't remember who it was who pointed out the fatuousness of the habit of saying "London, England" - so we don't get confused with London, Ontario?!!?
Zackley my point. Any good style manual will tell you to avoid Paris, France (unless you wish to differentiate it from Paris, Texas) for the obvious reasons of space considerations and respect for the reader's intelligence.
the fatuousness of the habit of saying "London, England" - so we don't get confused with London, Ontario?!!?
Depends on the context--if a national news article mentions
"London", we can safely assume that it is in England. But if it is casual conversation here, with no lead-in context,
we Kentuckians have to specify, because there is a London,
KY, and a Paris, KY! Also a Monkey's Eyebrow and a few other interesting place-names.
And--this IS the twentieth century, because it IS! The 21st one won't start till 1-1-01! GRR!
Here in Georgia we have a Vienna - pronounced VY-enna *helpful look*
>here in Georgia...
AS, which Georgia would that be?
p.s. - I'm so glad that *both ambiguities have now been alluded to...
[this place is so much fun]
p.p.s. - don't y'all know that all that misguided hype applied to 2000 and the new millennium will be applied all over again to 2001? (is this a great century or what?) [is this a great country or what?]
[is this a great country or what?]tsuwm, which country would that be?
Oh, you-all, I love it!! Tsuwm, you have skipped over
Kentucky and jumped into the Deep South with your "y'all".
Just another twig on the fire: this is a great county, too!
misguided hype applied to 2000 and the new millennium will be applied all over again to 2001?
Reminds me of the now-continous hype of Olympic competition, updates, vies for hosting, etc. Oh, do the 2000 games begin soon? I thought they began 8 years ago?
In reply to:
don't y'all know that all that misguided hype applied to 2000 and the new millennium will be applied all over again to 2001? (is this a great century or what?)
Well I enjoyed the film. Any plans for it to be re-released or is it going to be shown ad nauseam on TV?
PS. Jmh and anyone else from Britain of the right vintage, do you remember there being a carpet cleaner called 2001? Is it still being made? Is it still called that?
Bingley
>Jmh and anyone else from Britain of the right vintage, do you remember there being a carpet cleaner called 2001? Is it still being made? Is it still called that?
And what vintage would that be?
As a mere spring chicken in these parts I am gald to report that I am holding said carpet cleaner in my left hand whilst tpying with my right - sorry to dissapoint but it is called 1001 - for uses, I suspect, not the year.
Unless they are counting backwords and I missed out on the 2001 version. You might be thinking of the much loved moment in the Kubrick film where they got out the Bex Bissell and the carpet shampoo!
Yes, Bingley, there are certainly plans for re-releasing 2001 in 2001 (in 70mm, too!). I have a ticket booked to Melbourne as soon as screening dates are announced!
Yes, jmh, you're right, it was 1001. I don't suppose it's still less than half a crown though.
Bingley