Wordsmith.org
Posted By: sjm Brocco-lie or brocco-lee? - 07/31/02 12:34 AM
Recently I was watching a cooking show featuring an Australian presenter. Since my father taught me that the "differently abled" are children of Allah, I won't mock her for suffering that cruel affliction. However, she did insist on pronouncing the name of Bush Sr.'s favourite vegetable "brocco-lie". My question is, was this just an individual quirk, or another example of the process by which English has devolved into Strine?

Posted By: Buffalo Shrdlu Re: Brocco-lie or brocco-lee? - 07/31/02 12:59 AM
maybe she just meant the plural.

Posted By: hev Re: Brocco-lie or brocco-lee? - 07/31/02 01:07 AM
Brocco-lie

Glad to see that the "differently abled" are not to be mocked, sjm! I'm beginning to appreciate this Allah of yours.

I'm only speaking for myself, not the rest of the "differently abled" population, but I say Brocco-lie. So, what's the crime?

Posted By: doc_comfort Re: Brocco-lie or brocco-lee? - 07/31/02 04:07 AM
~lee here, just to be different.

Posted By: hev Re: Brocco-lie or brocco-lee? - 07/31/02 05:35 AM
just to be different.

Yeahbutt®, you're from South 'Differently Abled'. SDAs do everything a little different. Dance, plants, prance... hey, no one said we couldn't mock our own!

Posted By: RhubarbCommando Re: Brocco-lie or brocco-lee? - 07/31/02 11:00 AM
Brits used to say "brocco-lee".

Now they call it "calabrese"

Posted By: Jackie Re: Brocco-lie or brocco-lee? - 07/31/02 12:04 PM
"Brocco-lie"?? Ok, I'll be kind: outrage; horrors; anathema.

Posted By: Chemeng1992 Re: Brocco-lie or brocco-lee? - 07/31/02 12:44 PM
Maybe I'm just rough around the edges, but as I spoke the word out loud it came out 'broc-lee'. That's right, two syllables.

Posted By: boronia Re: Brocco-lie or brocco-lee? - 07/31/02 12:47 PM
And I say it brockle-ee, which is not quite the same as brocco-lee.

Posted By: Buffalo Shrdlu Re: Brocco-lie or brocco-lee? - 07/31/02 01:35 PM
I'm with boronia:

brockle-ee

Posted By: FishonaBike Re: Brocco-lie or brocco-lee? - 07/31/02 01:53 PM
Now they call it "calabrese"

You're right, Rhuby!

I think this is primarily followers of St Delia, though, isn't it?

How do USns and (non DSA ) Strine-speakers pronounce Cubby Broccoli's surname, then?



Posted By: TEd Remington Re: Brocco-lie or brocco-lee? - 07/31/02 01:55 PM
SJM:

I pronounce it with a long e on the end. Been around well more than half a century and I never heard it with a long i sound.

But this thread reminded me of a question I have been meaning to ask for some time now, with the question being directed more towards our friends in the UK.

A year or so ago I took Sasha to the library to stock up on reading material (Usually twenty books at a time now!) There was an English children's book which had pictures of things around the household. As I'm driving home Sasha is leafing through the book reading the captions. When she said "pot plant" I corrected her, "Nope, that's a potted plant."

She replied emphatically, "No, Daddy, it's a pot plant." When we stopped at a red light I looked at the book. Sure enough, there was a picture of a plant in a pot and the caption said "Pot plant." What is REALLY curious is that the plant looked suspiciously like cannabis plants I've umm seen in pictures. Yeah, that's it. Never seen one growing in a closet with a grow light on it, of course.

Question for UKrs: Is "pot plant" a term you would use for any plant with its roots in a pot or were the authors having us on?

TEd

Posted By: FishonaBike Pot pourri - 07/31/02 02:15 PM
Is "pot plant" a term you would use for any plant with its roots in a pot

Amazingly enough, yes, TEd

You see, we never call the plant with the interesting and distinctive leaves that you've seen in pictures "pot" - it's "grass" or "weed" or "skunk". Um, I believe.

In resinous form it's "hash" or "dope", although you do get people talking about "dope plants" just to confuse matters.

I've only ever heard USns and misled oldsters (trying to look with it) call it "pot".

waiting to be corrected by Rhuby!



Posted By: AnnaStrophic Re: Strine Eyes - 07/31/02 02:32 PM
Makes you wonder how in Oz they pronounce fettucini, teriyaki or even kiwi, for that matter.

Posted By: FishonaBike Re: Strine Eyes - 07/31/02 02:39 PM
how in Oz they pronounce fettucini, teriyaki or even kiwi

Don't have any of those in Oz, do they?

[running-away-and-hiding-behind-sjm -e]

Posted By: wwh Re: Brocco-lie or brocco-lee? - 07/31/02 02:50 PM
"Bush Sr.'s favourite vegetable "brocco-lie". A canard. And that's no lie.

Posted By: maverick Re: Brocco-lie or brocco-lee? - 07/31/02 11:10 PM
Now they call it "calabrese"

Nah - it's a different vegetable, and trust me on this because I grow both (whatever Delia may or may not say!)

Broccoli is a much taller and leggier plant that continues to stand through much of the winter (with purple and white sprouting forms), and calabrese is a quick-growing summer/autumn plant that is not hardy and grows larger florets that are comparatively like little green cauliflowers.

I love both but they are distinct and different in taste, texture, appearance, aroma, season....

Posted By: FishonaBike Re: Broccoli/Calabrese - 08/01/02 08:31 AM
>Now they call it "calabrese"
Nah - it's a different vegetable


Ah-hah! It all makes sense. I'd heard fairly recently that broccoli is not the green stuff but the "purple sprouting" stuff, which indeed has a different taste and texture, and is also a rolling-into-Winter veg.

I've just sussed that my kids love calabrese, but don't like broccoli. There's useful education.

Posted By: RhubarbCommando Re: Potted Broccoli/Calabrese - 08/01/02 02:59 PM
Sure, of course it's a different veg - doesn't stop the ignorant and uninitiated from calling "broccoli" (which is , indeed, as you describe it) "calabrese" - nor does it stop greengrocers (or the supermarket dumb version of that honorable trade) from labelling it so.

And, as to "pot" as a name, shona - I've not heard that used since mid-70s, I think. "Blow" was popular for a while, but I don't think it is now. I don't currently mix with anyone who is likely to inform me - life do get boring, don't it?


Posted By: of troy Re: Potted Broccoli/Calabrese - 08/01/02 03:28 PM
you live an ocean a way.. but i am up todate on current terms, and perhaps, not recently unfamiliar with some products from the Hemp family..

(but who knows this is the internet, and i could be a dog...)

Posted By: FishonaBike Potted Harry - 08/01/02 03:35 PM
but who knows this is the internet, and i could be a dog...




A sniffer dog, perhaps, that can't help but take work home.



Posted By: Hyla Re: Brocco-lie or brocco-lee? - 08/01/02 05:36 PM
Parm my French, but what the heck is Calabrese (or calabrese, I guess)?

mav's description of it gives me an idea what it looks like - do we have this Italian-surnamed veggie in the US? If so, what do we call it? If kids who don't like broccoli do like calabrese, I gotta get some onto our family meal rotation.

i am thinking that maybe they are talking about brocoli rabe-- vs broccoli. (calabrese is brocoli rabe? or calabrese is broccoli? who knows!)

Broccoli has big, tight, heads of flower buds..and thick stalks.. (that can be pealed, and eaten as well.. )

brocoli-rabe looks like broccoli that is anorexic... it is thin stalks, with some big green leaves, and thin, flowerbuds.. it looks more like a spinach than a broccoli.

while both are members of the same family, they are very different... (as different as cauliflower is from cabbage!) they look different, they have different growing times, and the taste very different.. someone should go find some pictures of these things.. since clearly, we have only a vague idea of what we are all talking about!

http://www.allrecipes.com/encyc/terms/b/5512.asp

a good image of broccoli

http://www.andyboy.com/recipes/rabe_dishes.html

an image of broccoli rabe..

Main Entry: broccoli rabe
Pronunciation: -"räb
Function: noun
Etymology: perhaps modification of Italian broccoli di rapa, literally, flowering tops of the turnip
Date: 1976
: a garden brassica (Brassica rapa ruvo) that is related to the turnip and produces edible leafy branching stalks and compact clusters of yellow florets -- called also broccoli raab \-"r@b, -"rab\, rapini

calabrese
A type of broccoli bearing clusters of blue-green to dark-green flower buds.
(Italian, Calabrian, from Calabria)

Posted By: hev Re: Strine Eyes - 08/02/02 01:55 AM
or even kiwi

Don't have any of those in Oz, do they?

Are you kiddin' me? [rolleyes] We got so many Kiwis over here, we just can't get rid of 'em. Want some? Going cheap?

[running-away-and-hiding-behind-sjm -e]

And here was I thinking you were a fish, not a chicken!

Posted By: sjm Re: Strine Eyes - 08/02/02 01:58 AM
>We got so many Kiwis over here, we just can't get rid of 'em. Want some? Going cheap?

Around 400,000 at last count. In the immortal words of the late, and largely unlamented Zildian PM Rob Muldoon, "NZers who move to Oz raise the average IQ of both countries."

Posted By: hev Re: Strine Eyes - 08/02/02 02:04 AM
Around 400,000 at last count.

Geez, is that all? It feels like so much more than that.

Posted By: sjm Re: Strine Eyes - 08/02/02 02:09 AM
>Geez, is that all? It feels like so much more than that.

Wishful thinking.

Posted By: FishonaBike PAHK-puk-puk-puk - 08/02/02 07:59 AM
[running-away-and-hiding-behind-sjm -e]

And here was I thinking you were a fish, not a chicken!


Depends what's for dinner.


Thought for the day:
if chickens could fly they wouldn't be renowned for running away.




Posted By: Bean calabrese - 08/02/02 11:55 AM
I shudder to think how calabrese is being pronounced, if you guys are all complaining about the pronunciation of broccoli.

FWIW, in Italian it would be cahl-ah-BREH-seh. (Note that when I write eh that is something quite different from ay. It's something like the vowel in get, except for Kiwis, of course...) (Anyway, when I pronounce it, even in an English sentence, it comes out in Italian.) I can appreciate the need to make the word fit our English tongues, so I'm wondering what the anglicized version is!

Also, to me, the word is an adjective, not a noun, so it sounds funny to think of eating "calabrese". (A calabrese what? Bread? Person?)

Posted By: AnnaStrophic Re: calabrese - 08/02/02 11:59 AM
I know calabrese only as a type of sausage.

A googleization of calabrese, broccoli reveals hundreds of sites; I looked at the first two pages and they were all based in Ireland or the UK. I can't find a North American equivalent, but I ain't giving up. I'll ask at the greengrocer's tomorrow.

There's something sold in the US called broccolini; it's a recently-developed hybrid of broccoli and kale (I think).

And rabe is also called 'rappy.'





Posted By: maverick Re: calabrese - 08/02/02 12:41 PM
it sounds funny to think of eating "calabrese". (A calabrese what? Bread? Person?)

depends ;)

(and FWIW, I pronounce it pretty much exactly as you describe, Bean, though I have no idea off the cuff what is general usage here)

Posted By: FishonaBike Re: calabrese - 08/02/02 01:07 PM
FWIW, I pronounce it pretty much exactly as you describe, Bean, though I have no idea off the cuff what is general usage here

Um, yes, well...

I'm pretty sure the general UK pronunciation would be Cah-luh-BREEZ


Posted By: Jackie Re: Potted Broccoli/Calabrese - 08/02/02 01:55 PM
Here are some links from a UK site:
broccoli calabrese
http://store.yahoo.com/seedsofchange/broccal.html

broccoli
http://santacruz.about.com/library/weekly/aa042102a.htm?terms=Broccoli

I was so excited when I saw a heading for Anthony Calabrese--I was thinking, "I can't wait to see the size of this...variety"<eg>; turns out he's an attorney in Arlington, Virginia!

Posted By: AnnaStrophic Re: Potted Broccoli/Calabrese - 08/02/02 03:06 PM
Jackie, yeahbut® can you find a calabrese site based in the USA or Canada that is *not about sausage? This is my problem. Looks like a job for Dr Bill!

Oh. And I know how to pronounce it, all right. I was married to one! (OK, quiet down, boys in the back...)

Posted By: emanuela calabrese:my guess - 08/02/02 04:42 PM
I imagine that the more likely possibility is
(insalata) calabrese
calabrese salad

since we have some different kinds of vegetables called insalata from somewhere, insalata romana, insalata
trevigiana...
Bean, you are always a surprise! Luckily, we have genders and articles, so
to eat "un calabrese" would be to eat a male person,
to eat "una calabrese" sound as eating, likely, a pizza as cooked in Calabria ,whatever it can mean.

Posted By: of troy Re: Potted Broccoli/Calabrese - 08/02/02 05:27 PM
Re: can you find a calabrese site based in the USA that is *not about sausage? This is my problem...
And I know how to pronounce it, ... I was married to one!


You were married to a sausage? well that explains alot!



Posted By: AnnaStrophic Re: Sausage - 08/02/02 06:27 PM
You were married to a sausage? well that explains alot!

Hey! When did you graduate to "boys in the back"???

Posted By: wwh Re: Broccoli/calabrese - 08/02/02 07:05 PM
From seed ad on Internet:

There are two kinds of Broccoli, the Purple Sprouting
type, which is extremely hardy and is over-wintered and
gives small florets in the spring, and the summer types,
which are more like Cauliflowers in shape. These
summer types are called Calabrese or green sprouting
broccoli.


Posted By: AnnaStrophic Re: Broccoli/calabrese - 08/02/02 07:08 PM
Yes! Thank you, Dr Bill! Now will you supply us with the link/URL?

Posted By: wwh Re: Broccoli/calabrese - 08/02/02 07:28 PM
http://www.powen.freeserve.co.uk/veg/Broccoli.htm

Posted By: WhitmanO'Neill Re: Broccoli/calabrese - 08/07/02 04:53 AM
From site called Backgroundnoise - Midwest Fever:

Monday

I made broccoli in my new steamer last night. I bought a big bunch of fresh broccoli and as I prepared it I sang the broccoli song, and for the first time in my life the words fit.

And my lady she went downtown
she bought some broccoli
she brought it ho-home
She's choppin brocco-lee
she's choppin brocco-lee
she choppin brocco-lay
choppin' brocco-lay-hay...

I always sing the song when I'm around broccoli, even if it's frozen or just a picture on a can of soup in the store. This has been happening ever since like 1984 when I saw Dana Carvey perform his ode to broccoli on TV. And the reason I have the link to it is because I had to look it up for Eli. He had no idea that I got the song from TV and all these years he thought it was just another one of the stupid songs I make up for everything I do. Like broccoli just routinely turns me into a singing kitchen ass. I don't know why he would think that. I never sing to cauliflower. Or peas.

Choppin' Broccoli is like Conjunction Junction and Beans & Rice. It sits dormant in a tiny little autistic segment of my brain and waits. And as soon as I'm provided with the correct stimulus like fresh broccoli or a picture of broccoli in the grocery store or someone just mentioning the word broccoli around me, it's out. Almost unconsciously. Like reflex.

http://truffulatree.com/jan0702.html

(no, don't ask, folks...it just came up on the search, I don't have a clue. Uh...Midwesterners?)