GallanTed just used a phrase which has always made me wonder. He said "I'm not a grass" which reminded me of watching The Bill (a fave of mine) where there's at least 3 instances in every episode of someone with a cockney accent saying "I won't grass 'im up - e's me mate" or similar.
I get the context, but where does the term come from? Etymology please kids...
Hev
Grass seems to be another example of the famed cockney rhyming slang - as a shortening of grass-in-the-park, which rhymes with "nark".
A nark is British slang for an informer - a shortening of copper's nark. This is possibly from the Romany nak for nose.
My English great grandma loved the term "nosey parker" for a busybody, and I would guess that it is linked to the Romany word too.
Welcome, zootsuit - and thanks for the expplanation. To me, it has become so much an everyday word that I have just accepted it, unquestioningly, as part of the normal vocab.
And here's me - a Londoner - admitting to not knowing about me own manner of speaking, in a manner o' speaking !!
There could be confusion between US and UK slang here, it seems In US a narc is a drug cop. And grass used to be standard for cannabis. But an asp in the grass might also mean a grasp in the ass.
A nark is British slang for an informer - a shortening of copper's nark
Now this is interesting, zootsuit! As Dr. Bill said, here in the US narc means, likewise, an informer or undercover cop, but derived from narcotics and the drug culture of the 60's (maybe earlier?) Back in the 60's and 70's the worst thing you could call somebody or accuse them of being was a narc! What are you, a narc?" is still a phrase you hear fairly regulary, usually in a jocular sense. But I've never seen it spelled with a "k", nor was I ever aware it was also derived from another source across the pond. So I'd love to hear some more about the background/etymology of copper's nark, and nark with the "k" as well.
Thanks zootsuit! Glad to see you're still here.
Okey dokey - this raises some more questions for me:
grass-in-the-park
Am I missing something here? What is the relevance of this statement? I understand the rhyming connection with "nark" (more about that later) but why would someone say this? How did it become the basis for the rhyming slang? I'm not explaining myself very well here ... I just don't understand why someone would say "Oh look at the grass in the park." Was there something fascinating about the grass?
copper's nark. This is possibly from the Romany nak for nose.
Ok, more about this please... I understand the "narc(otic)" connection on the US side of things, but what's the deal on the Brit side of the pond. Is the nark/nose connection correct? So a grass is actually a nose? I suppose that works.
Ok, I'll stop rambling now! But it is a word post!
Hev
Not precisely the same phrase, except perhaps by phonetic analogy, but does anyone know where the similar-sounding "gussied up" comes from?
It's used to mean "made to look pretty, at least superficially." Presumably there was once a personage named Gussie?
There is a scene in A Tree Grows in Brooklyninvolving "giving baby the Gussie," but that doesn't really sound like quite the relevant source...
Any ideas?
Oh man, I was so excited when The Word Detective began to verify my guess...and then the OED knocked it down:
"Gussied up" is a horse of a different color, however, and I think its slightly sarcastic tone is just right for describing someone dressed to the nines. "Gussied up" is usually described as a native Americanism dating to the early 20th century. The "gussy," it is theorized, was actually a "gusset," a triangular piece of fabric sewn into a garment to make it fit better. Gussets were, in those days, typical of fancy clothes and, by extension, a fitting symbol of sartorial frippery.
The Oxford English Dictionary, however, proposes a different, and I think much more likely, origin of "gussied up." It turns out that "gussie" -- a diminutive of the name "Augustus" -- is Australian slang for an effeminate man, dating back to the early 1900's. It's easy to imagine a rich young dandy named "Gussie" incurring the contempt of turn-of-the-century Australians, so I vote for this theory.
Here's what he says about grass:
My original theory was that the root of "grass" meaning "informer" or "traitor" is the expression "snake in the grass," which since the time of Virgil has been a metaphor for a deceitful or treacherous person.
Other authorities, however, trace "grass" to the rhyming slang term "grasshopper." Rhyming slang, common among the Cockneys of London as well as the working classes of Britain and Australia in general, uses a system of rhymes to disguise the words actually meant. In this case, "grasshopper" rhymes with and stands for either (opinions vary here) "copper" (as in police officer) or "shopper" (one who "shops," or sells, information to the police).
Lending credence to the "grasshopper" theory is the fact that while the earliest use of "grass" in print can only be traced back to 1932, an example of "grasshopper" is found as of 1893. If "grass" had come from "snake in the grass," it probably would have shown up much earlier, but as is it appears to have been a simple abbreviation of the already existing "grasshopper."
There has, incidentally, been a further development on the "grass" front in Britain in the last several decades -- the emergence of the "supergrass." These "superinformers" are high-level criminals whose revelations, comparable to those of recent American underworld turncoats, have shaken up major criminal syndicates in Britain.
"Gussied up" is a horse of a different color, however, and I think its slightly sarcastic tone is just right for describing someone dressed to the nines. [emphasis mine]
Dressed to the nines. Where did this come from and what does it refer to? What are the nines? Any takers?
Well I have been digging around and finding out a little more about the Romany language. Theories on the origin/s of the Rom/Roma/Romany folk are many and varied but it seems they have strong historical connections to India. The Romany language has elements of several Indian dialects. Not many Romany words have been incorporated into English but interestingly the East Enders of London have a number of them.
Example: "bloke" (meaning a man, also commonly used here in Oz) is from the Romany loke, which in turn is the Hindi word for man.
Anyhoo - back to the grass/nark connection: from what i've seen it is pretty certain that the "nark" or informer is derived from the Romany nak or naak for nose. The nark would "sniff out" information - hence "copper's nark" being self-explanatory. The modern "narc" has it's origin in "narcotic" and should not be confused with the much older "nark". Similarity is coincidental I guess.
But Hev's question remains: WHY turn "nark" into "grass in the park"? Clumsy indeed. I wish I knew!
Angel, here is one theory:
It relates to Shakespearean times, and the price of a seat at the theatre. The most expensive seats were nine pence, so if you sat there you had to dress in your best attire so as not to look out of place with the other wealthy patrons.
Theatrical "keeping up with the Jones" perhaps?
I saw this on Word Detective the other day:
There are, as I've implied, a whole slew of possible origins of "dressed to the nines," meaning to be dressed in an elegant or elaborate fashion. One theory is that it came from an Old English saying "dressed to the eyes," or to please the beholder, which, in the peculiar spelling of Old English, would have appeared "dressed to then eyne." Through a process called "metanalysis," in which letters from one word migrate over time to a neighboring word, "then eyne" might have become "the neyne" and then "the nines." A similar metanalytic process transformed "a napron" (related to "napkin") to our modern "an apron."
On the other hand, the number nine holds an exalted place in numerology, and might have been adopted in the distant past as a synonym for "superlative." "Dressed to the nines" would thus be equivalent to our modern "dressed to the max."
It's also possible that the phrase come from an old jeweler's phrase "nine nines fine," referring to gold of 99.9999999 percent purity, or that the phrase refers to the nine muses of classical mythology, or to the spiffy uniforms of the 99th Wiltshire Regiment in England, or, well, you get the idea. There is no one answer, so I guess you'll just have to pick the theory you like best. Personally, I like the one about 99 bottles of beer.
www.word-detective.com
I guess the answer is that there's no definitive answer. 
Hev
dressed to the MaxAlways knew you had style, Maxie!