In the theater (theatre) world, one wishes good luck on opening night by saying "break a leg!" ... In French, they say, as only the French would, "Merde!" [sic]. Brazilians chose to emulate the latter, and say "Merda!" How about in other corners of our global village?
annastrophic
i discovered the japanese often write "hito", the kanji for person, on the palm of their hand and pretend to swallow it. when i find out why i'll post it.
william, I'll bet they are taking in the essence of the
character they are about to portray. Let us hear, hear?
apparently, the kanji "hito" is written three times on the palm of the hand with a finger (a common way to explain stroke order in japan). it is then symbolically swallowed before going out on stage. the people i spoke to said it wasn't about becoming the character (noble idea, jackie!) but about negating the effect of the audience. once you swallow them they can't make you nervous!
there is an expresson "hito wo nomu" which literally means "drink people". i'll have to find out exactly what this one means. in the depths of superstition here.
by the way when i sang in the opera it was bad luck to whistle in the dressing rooms. some of the old timers would get really angry if you forgot and let loose with a catchy tune from the show.
<apparently, the kanji "hito" is written three times on the palm of the hand with a finger>
Thanks for that, william! Good timing — I'll be able to try it out in a few days.
BTW, during my "Googling" for the appropriate kanji image, I stumbled across the following regarding "hito wo nomu". It is from a proverb:
"ippai hito sake wo nomi ... sambai sake hito wo nomu"
(At the first glass, the man drinks the brandy; at the third, the brandy drinks the man)
Yeah, I can relate to that!
Chookas! lusy
lusy
i see from your profile you're from my hometown.
and i see you're into musical theatre which may mean we have some common acquaintances.
anyway, i think the "hito wo nomu" thing might be different in the case of your proverb. i didn't know that one, but i know the words. mind you "brandy" sounds an old fashioned way to translate "sake" which i would translate as "alcohol".
i think the "hito wo nomu" that comes from the stage is related to "hito wo mikudasu", looking down on people. exactly why i'm not sure, but it seems if you can look down on the people you are performing to you have nothing to fear.
sounds kind of scary. i always tried to look on my audience as friends and that helped me.
maybe you should have three drinks of brandy before your show, and to hell with translations!
break a leg!
william
In reply to:
mind you "brandy" sounds an old fashioned way to translate "sake" which i would translate as "alcohol".
So does the Japanese word "sake" cover a much wider range than what we call "sake", then?
Bingley
Thank you william, I much appreciate your post and your good wishes. Very interesting about the different versions of "hito wo nomu". Your concept of the audience as "friends" is a really good one, and I will try to adopt this attitude. Fortunately, in amateur theatre, which happens to be my bag, much of the audience tends to be relatives or friends or other kinds of well-wishers, and consequently it's always a bit easier for us than for the hard-working pros, whose audience and professional critics are only too ready and willing to cut them down ... as if they could do better, for God's sake!
Actually I don't much care for brandy as such, but I may perhaps be persuaded to have a nip or two of uishge before the event.
Rgds, lusy
"sake" as it is used in english refers to the rice alcohol made in japan. in japanese this is usually called "nihonshu": "japanese sake" (sake and shu are the same thing). "sake" by itself tends to mean alcohol in general, as in "sake ni you" (get drunk), "sakezuki" (someone who loves drinking) "izakaya" - sake changes to "zaka" - (drinking restaurant).
when compared with other drinks, however it can sometimes mean nihonshu.
there is also "osake" which is the respectful title, used mostly by women, and which never means nihonshu (as far as i know).
lusy, i never drank before a performance, but looking back it might have been better if i did!
what's the show?
william, thanks again. My word, I am learning a lot! As to having a nip or two before the show, I learned some time ago that the two don't really mix. Although I did enjoy being Pickering in My Fair Lady last year when, thanks to a beneficent props lady who went a bit overboard on the realism, I got to drink a glass of port during one scene! I don't think the director realised. The current show is The Gondoliers, in mid-season right now. Most enjoyable, even though quite sober!
Regards,
sakezuki lusy san (dear me, that has a nice ring to it!)
Thanks for the info. william. If they have a respectful name for alchohol, does this mean they don't have any teetotallers?
Bingley
as far as i know, alcohol isn't considered the curse it is in western culture (neither is sex). there are certainly non drinkers, but they usually pass it off as being "weak with alcohol". that doesn't mean that they are abstaining as such, but it might be used to mean that (another language nuance), so who knows really!
"osake" is used in rituals (such as sumo) so partaking is part of the culture, maybe a little different from the boys encouraging you to drink at your first job at 18. for men who don't or can't drink, the company drinking parties (not optional) are quite tough i believe.
it is also laid out at temples. not taking the communion wine might be seen as a little too strict in most christian denominations, i guess it's the same thing.
the point is, most non drinkers will order a drink and sip at it for hours while everytone else gets blistered.
"sakezuki lusy san" sounds perfect in japanese, by the way!
good ol' G and S!
>>"sakezuki lusy san" sounds perfect in japanese, by the way!
good ol' G and S!
As in "I am the very model of a sakezuki lusy san"?
>>there is also "osake" which is the respectful title, used mostly by women, and which never means nihonshu (as far as i know)<<
'O-sake' is indeed an honorific form and generally in Japan women speak more politely than men and use honorific forms more often, so I agree with you that women tend to use this word. However, I've heard it used by women (and maybe men as well, I can't remember) to mean nihonshu.
Maybe the word is used less in this meaning in Sendai as there are more varieties of alcohol available in the big city?
Like I said, you should go to Festival. The question will be 'nani o nomu? Uisuki? O-sake? Biru?' (What are you drinking? Whisky? Sake? Beer?)
... and that's at 9:30 in the morning....
thanks bridget,
i think i overlooked that one. "osake" can also be used to mean nihonshu in a comparative situation.
bridget, was this used mostly by shop staff to customers?
i can't recall anyone saying it within a group off hand.
by the way (BTW) "obi-ru" always sounds funny to me.
just thought of another slip.
don't award yourself the "san" title when talking to someone japanese (except - maybe -in an obviously humourous way).
other people award titles to you.
>>by the way (BTW) "obi-ru" always sounds funny to me.<<
ABSOLUTELY. In fact, I can't think of a foreign-origin word to which the Japanese apply an honorific. Can you?
(Or should this be in the PC thread?
)
apologies to my good friend annastrophic for us japanese lobby groupists taking over this thread temporarily...
a japanese friend told me that "osake" can even mean traditional alcohol made in japan (as in nihonshu and shouchuu), so the question you were asked at the festival would mean shouchuu in places like kyuushu.
with all the potential situations it gets very complicated.
i think "sake" originally meant alcohol made in japan. as other varieties were imported the word was expanded to mean all alcohol. and in fact young people use it that way now. older people may well use "sake" or "osake" to mean strictly japanese products. and it may still be used to distinguish between imported drinks and japanese drinks (i tried it tonight in a bar - i asked for "osake" and the wait=ress= was really surprised and asked "nihonshu-te koto?") customers almost never ask in this way. they usually ask for "nihonshu".
somehow, from the situation, people understand what is being talked about. when someone asks "osake suki desuka?" they're always asking "do you like alcohol?". but if a bartender asks "osake ha ikaga desuka?" it may well mean "how about nihonshu?" as opposed to all the other drinks on offer. in the same way, "burande-" (brandy) can cover whisky as well for older people.
anyway, "obi-ru" is also a use for mainly older women running bars. it is really unusual for an honorific to be applied to a foreign word. i can think of one other "otoire" (toilet) and will pursue my acquaintances over the next few days to find if there are any more.
Fine with me, william
.... it's all interesting. But why don't you guys start a new thread? There's lots of room....