In NEW SCIENTIST for 19 Jan in an article about finding other worlds in space I encountered a bit of Brit slang I had to look up. It was said that ingenious use of existing technology (will leave) "expensive space missions pipped at the post.". Which apparently means beaten before they even start.

Sorry Bill, but to be "pipped at the post" means to be beaten at the last minute; to nearly succeed only to be disappointed when success seemed firmly within your grasp.

Dear CK: Thanks for your response. The sense of the article suggested a defeat before the race had begun, not a defeat close to the finish. Of course my ignorance of racing enables me to confuse starting gate with the post at the finish of the race.

Dear CK: I found a US glossary of racing terms, and found this:

POST- Starting point or position in starting gate.

Is there that much difference between UK and US terminology?

I have also read "Post time" meaning time race is scheduled to start.

Weelll, Bill. Here's the thing. There is a "starting post" and there is a "finishing post". They may actually be the same post, viewed as each type, however, at different stages of the race.

I'd never thought about whether the expression "to be pipped at the post" was understood in America, but I accept that it may not be common usage there. It is in Zild, and I'm sure that it will be in Oz. Maybe even in Canada, contaminated though she often is by the linguistic foibles of her southern neighbour.

The post referred to, I believe, is always the finishing post in terms of this expression.

What you call "pipped at the post", we here call "nipped at the wire". But of course, our fair Kentuckian will wish to speak on the equine subject?

Dear CK: here is the complete text, which seems to me to mean that the ground based guys can win before the race even starts. I did have a slight misquote in my original post, "at" substitured for "to".

While space agencies spend hundreds of millions of dollars
developing a host of space-based missions to discover
distant terrestrial planets, researchers are making ingenious
use of existing technology back here on Earth. They're
confident that expensive space missions will be pipped to the post
before they even get off the ground.

from New Scientist, Jan 19, 2002

I didn't find a Brit-speak list that had pipped at or pipped to the post, but I did Google "pipped to the post".
Most of the entries were pipped AT the post, and did mention last-minute events. The one that had pipped TO the post was an article about foot-racing with oranges in Devon...and they say WE'RE weird.

I know that the British refer to the seeds in fruit as pips, and I read where someone called the warning tones in a pay phone pips.

It may be that the article implied that, although the get-out-there-and-get-it guys are going to continue to develop their projects, the hey-we-found-a-way-to-get-it-while-staying-home guys are going to make enough progress that the need for some of the go-away projects will cease to exist.

As to nipped at the wire: I have seldom heard that. I have heard edged out by a nose, beaten by a nose, and more commonly, nosed out at the wire. Here at Churchill Downs, and at other U.S. racetracks I have heard races called at on TV, if the announcer says "the Post", that means the starting post. That's why the horses' placements in the starting gate are called Post Positions. Is that the way it is at Pimlico, Bob?

Yes Jackie, at Pimlico, as at Churchill Downs, the "post", by itself with no qualification, is taken to mean the starting post. The end point of a race is generally referred to as the "wire", as in "right down to the wire". You will hear commentators on races on TV saying, "The horses are approaching the post", which means coming up to the starting gate. But at the end of the race, it would be, "Glue Factory is bearing down on the wire a length ahead of Dogsmeat", or some such.

But then, you might expect the Brits to get the expression "post" backwards; after all, they do run races in the wrong direction.

they do run races in the wrong direction.
That's right, they do! I'd forgotten that.

At Churchill Downs, there is one post marked Finish, but none marked Start. The starting "post" is wherever the starting gate is. This moves to different places around the track, according to the length of each race.

We also manage to carry the term across to political elections, where our electoral system is referred to as 'first past the post'. Basically, the one with the most votes wins, regardless of whether or not he has a majority in his constituency. This means someone could have a majority in Parliament having only won say 40% of the votes in the constituencies making up that majority. Who needs proportional representation when you've already got such an equitable system (heavy sarcasm - e)??

I wonder if whoever came up with the term was a racing man?

they do run races in the wrong direction.

It should be noted that this is true only for Brits. Unlike choice of which side of the road to drive on, correct direction of races is dictated by purely natural forces, in this case the Coriolis Effect. This means that, while the Brits run their races in violation of this Law, the Ozzies and Kiwis are running theirs, although, to the untrained eye, in the same direction as the Brits, in the correct direction since the Coriolis Effect is reversed on the underside* of the world.

*http://www.bacchus-marsh.com/Files/Part 6.htm

While I grasped your twaddle, I couldn't see where my twaddle fitted into your twaddle's thesis!

Admission that South is Down, Cap. Mulling About in the Lower Latitudes

We also manage to carry the term across to political elections, where our electoral system is referred to as 'first past the post'.

"We", in this instance, being British. In the US it doesn't work any more, although it used to. Now the expression is "first past the Florida Supreme Court". Doesn't really have the same ring to it, does it?

'first past the post'

Actually, here we generally say "first outta the gate" which probably makes more sense since that doesn't imply that the person has won like "first past the post" does.

Nipped at the wire I have never heard. Nipped at/in the bud is quite a common expression meaning it was stopped right at the start or just as it was beginning to form.

As to racing term...in Québec we are notorious for enthusiastically going anywhere that is *not the race track. The one we have is subsidized by the govt and caters to a few hundred people on weekends.

Not strictly true Faldage. In different states of Australia horse races are conducted either clockwise or anticlockwise. The mere fact one state does it one way is sufficient for another to do it the opposite way.

stales

...either clockwise or anticlockwise.

To get back to the original name of this thread, "British slang", I have always heard it as counterclockwise and that is the way it is listed in my dictionary. Do Brits frequently use anti over counter?

dunno if you're calling me a brit - could be trouble if so..

We even use CW and ACW as shorthand for clockwise and anticlockwise. Put it down as an Aussie thing.

stales

They run races both CW and ACW [CCW] ?? Doesn't this get the horses confused or dizzy?

Some races here in Zild also go "the other way", but that's not much of a problem because most Kiwi horses are too busy winning every race on offer across the ditch. you did ask for the gloves to come off, right stales? ;^)

Ooooo, go Maxie!

'scuse me Board members, but there's a little sorting out needs doing around here. Before I do however, please don't be alarmed - as Hev pointed out Kiwi baiting and Aussie baiting is a national sport on either side of the Tasman and must not be taken seriously by outsiders.

Now, Max and CapK...........

Point 1. Just think of Aussies as the social workers of the south Pacific. It's our job to do whatever we can to help other, less fortunate, nations improve their self esteem. If this involves letting them make a few clothes for us, or encouraging their nags to gallop around our racetracks, then so be it. We'll even give them $10M to look after our boat people if that will help.

Point 2. Students of psychology would be aware that those with low self esteem spend much of their time pointing out the faults in everything else.

stales

Kiwi baiting and Aussie baiting is a national sport on either side of the Tasman and must not be taken seriously by outsiders.

A) Can we bet?

2) Will y'all be running around after each other sungates or widdershins?

> South is Down...

And now to really confuse you.....

The North magnetic pole is not somewhere in the vicinity of the North geographic pole. It is, in fact, at the opposite end of the earth, somewhere near the South geographic pole. It's the SOUTH end of a compass needle (ie the blue bit) that happens to be pointing toward the Arctic. It does so because it is at the mercy of the North pole of the compass needle, dutifully pointing towards the North magnetic pole.

Stick around a few million years and things will reverse, the North magnetic pole and the North geographic pole will be virtually coincident.

Why? "They" are still working on the answer to that.

stales

A) Can we bet?

2) Will y'all be running around after each other sungates or widdershins?

and who, pray tell, will be going "the other way". I always thought y'all were proterberance liking fellas.

Point 2. Students of psychology would be aware that those with low self esteem spend much of their time pointing out the faults in everything else.

stales

Sorry to hear about your little problem. Is Australia "everything else"? Objectively, I mean.