Dear GallantTed: I thought of a question for you. Knowing what the old timers called a cesspool, was, I was surprised to hear the phrase "bad cess to you". At first I thought it was hoping the victim would have an acute stoppage of the lower end of the the alimentary canal. Please, sir, can you tell us the etymology of this phrase?
Bill:
Wrong Ted answering, but cess is probably short for success and means now luck. so bad cess to you means bad luck to you.
The other Ted
Dear TEd: But good cess doesn't suc.
teD has successfully sussed this one, although OED2 gives an alternate etymology:
Anglo-Irish.
[? for success, or from cessą sense 2.]
In phrase bad cess to = ‘bad luck to, evil befall’.
1859 Punch 17 Dec. Carlisle and Russell—bad cess to their clan! 1860 S. Lover Leg. & Stories (ed. 10) 313 Bad cess to you, can't you say what you're bid.
cessą sense 2 - Ireland. The obligation to supply the soldiers and the household of the lord deputy with provisions at prices ‘assessed’ or fixed by government; hence loosely used for military exactions generally. Obs. exc. Hist.
1612 Davies Why Ireland, &c. (1787) 20 By their continual cess and extortion
[aside to bill] perhaps our new Ted is more interested in 'gamblen' than gamboling through word history.
I the matter will re-word; which madnesse Would gamboll from. -WS
There is also 'bad scran to you', where scran = food, provisions. Irish expression, word of unknown origin.
Howya WWH
Didn't see yer question until now - was too busy writen potery (check out the Fuzzled Post). Bad cess, eh? Not the sort of term a nice bear like meself would be usen. Could it be anyhin ta do with Cecil - the God of luck...
"Bad cess to" means a curse on and it could be linked to the need for Irish householders ta provide the soldiers of their English overlords with provisions at low prices "assessed" by the government.
Good cess ta yerself
GT
GT
Dear Tsuwm
There's room in me life fer both words and gamblen. Did ya read the great pome I wrote yet, on the Fuzzled thread?
I'll wager it'll intoxicate ya with it's brilliance.
GT
As a gambling man, you ought to be able to give bit more information about "Cecil, the god of Luck" I sense a jest, but cannot flesh it out.
Once when I was a visitor in Port Deposit, MD, the black cook asked me if I had seen the sisslewig. I could truthfully say I had not. Later in the day I found out that the sisslewig was the newpaper.................
the "Cecil Whig".
When I was a kid, there were two children who lived across the street from me. Cecil and Dusty Rhodes. We once decided to make a movie of Man of La Mancha, and Dusty said, "I'll be Don Quixote, Ted will be Sancho Panza and Cec'll be de mill."
Well, I said it actually, but I didn't want you to think I made puns or anything like that.
Dear Teddy Bare-It-All:
Please edify me about:
Could it be anyhin ta do with Cecil - the God of luck...
...this god is news to me, but then my brain is fried having read articles on education all day. I hope you'll be sympathetic...
And the other Ted: I enjoyed your Cecil B. DeMille story. I wish you'd punish us a bit more often.
Best regard,
WasteWind
Howya Wordwind
Me syntehtic ear is always open ta them in trouble.
Ya see, Cess is short fer Cecil (the god of luck)
That makes Cess the god of luck.
Through causual reference Cess (or Cecil) becomes synonymous with luck.
Hence "bad cess ta ya" = "bad luck ta ya".
I might add at this point that I made the whole thing up about Cecil being the god of luck. I could equally have said that he was the god of hair days. I don't really know anybody by that name.
One things puzzles me though about the whole etymology of the expression "bad cess to you". Ya see, if the explanations given by meself and tsuwm are true (they come from "reliable" sources) and the expression dates back to centuries ago, there is no allowance given fer the fact that the Irish householders in question wouldn't have spoken English - unless, of course, it was the English settlers who originally used this phrase. Has anyone any thoughts on thi sissue (pardon! the bubbles from the fountain of knowledge have gone up me nose)
GallantTed
Gallant Teddy,
In deference to the bubbles from the fountain that are going up your nose, may I suggest that you study pegomancy? A fortune in understanding could lie with that endeavor.
Best regards,
Wordy
Dear Westwind: in looking up pegomancy, I found a word "scrying" which means divination by gazing into crystal ball.
Dear Windy
I saw that one comen.
Peg O' Mancy was a good friend of mine once but the bubble burst. So I took up with Clare Voyance instead. Alas, she left me in runes - but that's another story.
Then came Peg's sister, Lith O Mancy. She was once the light of my life but she then scalded me bad. After that I took up with Pam S Tree - ya have ta hand it ta her cos she really loved me - but I got cold feet in the end.
G E O' Mancy was too down ta earth fer an intelligant bear like meself so I ran off with her cousin Molly Beedee but she just blew hot and cold.
Now I'm all alone and scryen and these days I perfer ta read a good book.
Omen ta that
GallantTed
Are you sure you're not Ted Remmington, Gallant Ted? You two sure do have a lot more in common that your names...
And what about xenomancy and lecanomancy? There are fortunes to be gained in those arts, too...or lost fortunes, as the case may prove to be.
ListingWind Neither Ted can resist the urge to make a pun.
wwh: "For scryin' out loud!"
...That's what you say when the fortune teller reads the crystal ball and reveals things to the audience that you wished had remained crystallized.
DumbDumb
I haven't laughed this hard in oh HOURS! My favorite of the O'Mancy sisters was Neck'r O'Mancy. That gal could just take your breath away (not to mention your tongue).
I think, though, that I may have met my match. Someday soon I may have to hire The Who to sing, "...I just handed my punball crown to him."
This GallantTed guy is a master. But us old salts will try to find a way to topgallant. Remember the mainsails!
Dear GallantTed: in looking up something else, I ran across the Gaelic names for the seasons. Please tell us how they are pronounced:
These festivals came to
be enjoyed during the four quarters of the Celtic year: Earrach,
spring; Sambradh, summer; Foghara, harvest; and Geambradh,
winter. To these, of course, we have to add the Christian festival
of Nollaig, Christmas.
Howya WWH
Them is the four seasons all right: samhradh, fomhar, geimhreadh agus (and) errach.
Regarding pronounciation people in different parts of the country pronounce Gaelic words differently, and as ya can imagine everyone thinks their version is the correct one (Connaught Irish, Ulster Irish, Munster Irish)
Here's Ted's effort and if I'm battered ta death by a band of vigilante Gaelgoirs (Gaelic pendantics), be it on your head.
Samradh - (very roughly) sow-rah
Fomhar - (ditto) four
Geimhreadh - (ditto) giv-ru
Errach - (ditto) ear-rah or ear-ock
The seasons themselves were not festivals, but each one was marked by the following feast day:
Bealtaine - May 1
Lughnasa - Aug 1
Samhain - Nov 1
Imbolc - Feb 1
GT
Dear GT which in this case stands for "great tease". Pretty please, sugar on it, please tell us how to pronounce name of holidays. I can remember Samhain, but never saw the others before. Bill
Howya WWH
Happy ta be of assistance again - but remember I'm no expert here.
Samhain - sown (as in down) - Oiche Shamhain - Hallowe'en
Bealtaine - bal-tan-a - Mayday
Lughnasa - lun-as-a - the god Lug - no particular celebration now (mainstream anyways)
Imbolc - St Bridget's day - once a pagan goddess
GT
"For scryin' out loud!"
I thought that was the sound of someone reading a "Dear John" letter.