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Posted By: Rapunzel Raven-ous? - 10/23/01 01:03 AM
I was struck by this word today, and began to wonder if it was derived from the bird or from some other source. I found this definition in Atomica:

rav·en·ous (răv'ə-nəs)
adj.
Extremely hungry; voracious.
Rapacious; predatory.
Greedy for gratification: ravenous for power. See synonyms at voracious.
[Middle English, from Old French ravineux, from raviner, to take by force, from Vulgar Latin *rapīnāre, from Latin rapīna, plunder. See rapine.]


This etymology, though sensible, doesn't quite satisfy me. I still think that the bird must be involved somehow! The OED definition of raven included this side note:

The common raven is easily tamed, but is mischievous and thievish, and has been popularly regarded as a bird of evil omen and mysterious character. (my emphasis)

Does anybody else think there might be a connection, or am I just out to lunch?


Posted By: tsuwm Re: Raven-ous? - 10/23/01 04:35 AM
could be just one of those logostical coincidences. raven (the bird) seems to have Teutonic roots. (you could have just as easily emphasized easily tamed, but that wouldn't fit with ravenous I suppose :)

Posted By: NicholasW Re: Raven-ous? - 10/23/01 07:44 AM
Rapine and the alternative Middle English spelling ravin suggest that association with the bird might have helped move to and fix the -e- spelling.

I think the Latin root rap- 'seize' is related to Greek harp- 'seize', as in the Harpies.

The Old English and Old Norse for the bird were hrafn, but the h is unrelated, coming from an earlier k.

Posted By: stales Re: Raven-ous? - 10/23/01 11:40 AM
Chambers says:

raven/ravin/ravine: n, rapine: preying: prey (O.Fr. ravine, plunder-L. rapina-rapere, plunder, to sieze.)

Having the same Latin root works for me.

stales

Posted By: Faldage Re: Raven-ous? - 10/23/01 01:38 PM
stales says Having the same Latin root works for me.

Yeahbut©, raven¹ (http://www.bartleby.com/61/88/R0058800.html)
and
raven² (http://www.bartleby.com/61/89/R0058900.html)
are no more the same words than are
cleave¹ (http://www.bartleby.com/61/89/C0398900.html)
and
cleave² (http://www.bartleby.com/61/90/C0399000.html)
or
let¹ (http://www.bartleby.com/61/96/L0129600.html)
and
let² (http://www.bartleby.com/61/97/L0129700.html).

Posted By: Rapunzel Re: Raven-ous? - 10/23/01 03:34 PM
you could have just as easily emphasized easily tamed, but that wouldn't fit with ravenous I suppose :)

Exactly. I was indulging in a bit of decidedly unscholarly data-tweaking. Or selective reading, as the case may be.

Any excuse for a word thread, right Uncle Bill?


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