Jaywalking - 06/24/01 08:47 AM
Where did the word jaywalk originate? In the dictionary it says a jay is an inexperienced person. Is a jay too inexperienced to know where they should cross the street??
Re: Jaywalking - 06/24/01 12:14 PM
Re: Jaywalking - 06/24/01 12:42 PM
Boston used to be the jaywalking capital of the world. Particularly at lunch time back in the thirties I have seen Washington Street in the business center covered with hundreds of people criss-crossing in every direction so that cars could not move. The police in Atlanta must have had a lot of trouble with Bostonians, if an experience I had there was typical. The first day I was in Atlanta back 1943, I stepped off the curb waiting for a chance to cross, A police cruiser with public address horn on the roof almost a hundred yards downstreet blared out:"Hey, you from Boston, get back on the curb!" My face must have shown my bewilderment wondering how the cop could have known I was from Boston, the way the crowd laughed.
Re: Jaywalking - 06/24/01 02:34 PM
Dear Dr. Bill,
Nothing's changed!
Nothing's changed!
Re: Jaywalking - 06/24/01 03:33 PM
Unlike Chicago, where the streets run along latitude and longitude lines (with a few exceptions), the old cow paths that the streets of Boston were carved out of (so I was told) made me want to walk in other than straight lines for a couple of years.
I can't imagine a "society" being arrogant enough to control the veritable mayhem of jaywalking... safety - shmafety!
Now spitting on the sidewalk... that's another issue... could you imagine public spitoons? 
Both are ticketable offenses here!
I can't imagine a "society" being arrogant enough to control the veritable mayhem of jaywalking... safety - shmafety!
Now spitting on the sidewalk... that's another issue... could you imagine public spitoons? Both are ticketable offenses here!
Re: Jaywalking - 06/24/01 04:09 PM
<<Now spitting on the sidewalk>>
Do that in Chicago and you'll be spitting into the wind. ;)
Do that in Chicago and you'll be spitting into the wind. ;)
Re: Jaywalking / spitoons - 06/24/01 05:37 PM
Now spitting on the sidewalk... that's another issue... could you imagine public spitoons?
Oh yes indeedy the Old Lady mutters in my day, there were brass spitoons alongside the stamp windows at Post Offices. They all disappeared during the World War II metal drives as did twice-a-day mail deliveries ... never to reappear! I sure don't miss the spitoons but mail twice a day was nice!
Oh yes indeedy the Old Lady mutters in my day, there were brass spitoons alongside the stamp windows at Post Offices. They all disappeared during the World War II metal drives as did twice-a-day mail deliveries ... never to reappear! I sure don't miss the spitoons but mail twice a day was nice!
Re: Jaywalking / spitoons - 06/24/01 08:13 PM
Speaking of twice-a-day mail, do y'all Brits still enjoy this convenience? Does anyone anywhere else in the world?
Re: Jaywalking / spitoons - 06/25/01 12:50 AM
Spitoons.. reminds me of a ditty my father taught me, to the famous tune from Carmen -
Toreeador-a, don't spit on the floor-a
Use the cuspidora, that's what it's for-a.
Toreeador-a, don't spit on the floor-a
Use the cuspidora, that's what it's for-a.
Re: Jaywalking / spitoons - 06/25/01 09:27 AM
We get two post deliveries in Madrid, one in the morning and one in the afternoon. It's wonderful!
Where I live in London the first post is delivered at around 9 am, and the second at around 12. It always makes me think, how can it be more convenient to deliver twice in a space of three hours than to save it all up for a midday delivery?
Where I live in London the first post is delivered at around 9 am, and the second at around 12. It always makes me think, how can it be more convenient to deliver twice in a space of three hours than to save it all up for a midday delivery?
Re: Jaydriving - 06/25/01 12:39 PM
Boston used to be the jaywalking capital of the world
When I was in Boston, 1970±1 year, jay walking wasn't limited to pedestrians. On of the first pieces of traffic that I remember seeing was the two cars that met on a side street and passed, not driver side to driver side but passenger side to passenger side. It was a one way street. Sometime later, on a visit, I saw a tourist driving on a six lane one way street looking confused. I was sending thought rays at him imploring him not to ask directions, but he must have had his aluminum foil helmet on. He has no idea how much grief he was spared when the native simply said, "You're going the wrong way."
When I was in Boston, 1970±1 year, jay walking wasn't limited to pedestrians. On of the first pieces of traffic that I remember seeing was the two cars that met on a side street and passed, not driver side to driver side but passenger side to passenger side. It was a one way street. Sometime later, on a visit, I saw a tourist driving on a six lane one way street looking confused. I was sending thought rays at him imploring him not to ask directions, but he must have had his aluminum foil helmet on. He has no idea how much grief he was spared when the native simply said, "You're going the wrong way."
Re: Jaydriving - 06/25/01 01:07 PM
:Only those who have had the torment of driving in Boston can imagine what a crazy-quilt of one way streets they have. Way back in the thirties the Postmaster of Bridgewater to find a convention site started down a one way street the wrong way.; A red faced Hibernian in blue uniform with badge, blew whistle, clamped his foot on running board of car, thrust his snarling face into window, and demanded "What's your name?" The terrified postmaster stammered :"Murphy, Officer." The cop snarled back "And a foine thing it is for you too. Get the hell out of here!"
Re: Jaywalking - 06/25/01 01:46 PM
the old cow paths that the streets of Boston were carved out of (so I was told)
From the tearing down romantic, fun, interesting myths department:
The streets of Boston were not laid out according to cow paths. The city's layout is a fairly standard medieval one. The first two streets in Boston were King Street (now State) and High Street (now several names, including Columbus Av.). High St. ran along "the Neck", which was the thin strip of land connecting the near-island of the Shawmut penninsula (Downtown Boston) to the Dorchester Flats King St. intersected at a right angle and ran out to (and on to) the Long Wharf. Later streets were laid out parallel to High (particularly as the Neck was thickened through filling in the spaces between the numerous wharves) or King, but often curved to avoid the three hills that originally marked the pennisula (hence Tremont St.) or directly connected important sites in the city (the North End and the Common) or ran along the original coastline, but are now well inland (Atlantic Av.). Check out the site below for a wonderful collection of historic Boston maps. Check out the Composite Map, which clearly shows the city's vastly altered outlines.
http://www.mappingboston.com/html/explore.htm
The above was based on memories from a college course, so forgive me if I have some names wrong. I certainly won't argue that Boston is easy to get around (particularly by car), but there was some planning that went into it all, even if the results seem to adhere to only bovine logic.
EDIT: The link should work now, wow. Sorry for the error in the original posting (my first {url} tag!).
From the tearing down romantic, fun, interesting myths department:
The streets of Boston were not laid out according to cow paths. The city's layout is a fairly standard medieval one. The first two streets in Boston were King Street (now State) and High Street (now several names, including Columbus Av.). High St. ran along "the Neck", which was the thin strip of land connecting the near-island of the Shawmut penninsula (Downtown Boston) to the Dorchester Flats King St. intersected at a right angle and ran out to (and on to) the Long Wharf. Later streets were laid out parallel to High (particularly as the Neck was thickened through filling in the spaces between the numerous wharves) or King, but often curved to avoid the three hills that originally marked the pennisula (hence Tremont St.) or directly connected important sites in the city (the North End and the Common) or ran along the original coastline, but are now well inland (Atlantic Av.). Check out the site below for a wonderful collection of historic Boston maps. Check out the Composite Map, which clearly shows the city's vastly altered outlines.
http://www.mappingboston.com/html/explore.htm
The above was based on memories from a college course, so forgive me if I have some names wrong. I certainly won't argue that Boston is easy to get around (particularly by car), but there was some planning that went into it all, even if the results seem to adhere to only bovine logic.
EDIT: The link should work now, wow. Sorry for the error in the original posting (my first {url} tag!).
Re: Jaywalking - 06/25/01 01:52 PM
Dear Flatlander The link won't disply {frustrated-map-lover -e} Or is it just me ...again!
Re: Jaywalking - 06/25/01 04:10 PM
Flatlander - thanks for the cool map link, and the history of some of the streets. I grew up in the South End, between Columbus Ave. and Tremont Street, both of which you mention. Now I wish I had taken the college course you describe. I think Bostonians were just content with being able to navigate the city's streets (I really can, and can even give directions reasonably clearly!), and don't bother studying their history.
Re: Jaywalking - 06/25/01 04:53 PM
Hyla, you (and others interested) should read Boston: A Topographical History by Walter Muir Whitehill. I understand that it has just been re-released in an updated third edition by Harvard U. Press, and is available from your friendly neighborhood giant internet bookshop.
Boston streets - 06/25/01 05:16 PM
How much is the current construction of whatever it's called* going to effect Boston's streets?
*I asked my eldest son the other day, What ever became of Bill S.? (one of his frieends who was always in and out of our house when they were growing up). He replied that Bill has been in Boston for over 2 years making a fortune working on "the Ditch" at least 60 hours a week at high wages.
*I asked my eldest son the other day, What ever became of Bill S.? (one of his frieends who was always in and out of our house when they were growing up). He replied that Bill has been in Boston for over 2 years making a fortune working on "the Ditch" at least 60 hours a week at high wages.
Re: Boston streets - 06/25/01 06:35 PM
How much is the current construction of whatever it's called* going to effect Boston's streets?
It is (unofficially) called "The Big Dig," and it will have a major effect on the city, one way or the other. The most obvious effect will be the removal of the big, green, ugly, elevated Central Artery. The highway will be underground, with simplified exits to the surface streets. The resulting vacant strip will be left open mostly for parks and other public buildings (I think I heard something about a botanical garden a while back). Many claim that this will forever ease the horrendou traffic problems of the city, but more thoughtful observers worry about the project's effect on parking and public transportation. If you are telling everyone that it is now so much easier to get into Boston by car, that makes them less likely to take the excellent public transportation system, and makes them need parking spaces, which already run in the neighborhood of $20/hour in some places.
Check out http://www.bigdig.com for the official party line, and I will Google for some dissenting opinion to post later.
EDIT: I expected to find some strong opposition to the Big Dig online, but this is a bit much: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/2360/bigdig.html.
It is (unofficially) called "The Big Dig," and it will have a major effect on the city, one way or the other. The most obvious effect will be the removal of the big, green, ugly, elevated Central Artery. The highway will be underground, with simplified exits to the surface streets. The resulting vacant strip will be left open mostly for parks and other public buildings (I think I heard something about a botanical garden a while back). Many claim that this will forever ease the horrendou traffic problems of the city, but more thoughtful observers worry about the project's effect on parking and public transportation. If you are telling everyone that it is now so much easier to get into Boston by car, that makes them less likely to take the excellent public transportation system, and makes them need parking spaces, which already run in the neighborhood of $20/hour in some places.
Check out http://www.bigdig.com for the official party line, and I will Google for some dissenting opinion to post later.
EDIT: I expected to find some strong opposition to the Big Dig online, but this is a bit much: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/2360/bigdig.html.
Re: Boston streets - 06/26/01 04:18 AM
Do I gather then that the excellent system described above by Dr. Bill of making motorists wait for pedestrians rather than vice versa is no longer in effect?
Bingley
Bingley
Re: Boston streets - 06/26/01 12:01 PM
Giving the pedestrian right of way is the law in almost every state/jurisdiction.. But in several east cost cities, notable, Boston and NY, it is almost never adhered to.
In NY (I haven't spent enough time in Boston to know that it true there, but I suspect it is..) Both pedestrians and vehicles operate on the idea of "never yield" You might thing that a 3000 pound automobile or 10,000 pound truck is always going to win.. But the masses of pedestrians in both cities changes the odds.. And traffic lights, double parked cars other things slow vehicular traffic down, so, it easier for pedestrians to dart between the cars.
Rudy–(NY Mayor) has tried to enforce no jaywalking.. And in spite of occasionally handing out $50 fines, there has not been much success.. The cops don't want to write the tickets, and no one really wants thing to change..
In some cities, (i.e. Pittsburgh) when you step off the curb, traffic grinds to a halt.. very strange! and in California and Washington (state) traffic will also halt, but cops will give you ticket, on the spot.. And a talking to...
Londoners jay walk too, but not like NY'ers– Italians are like NY'ers. The Japanese are much more like Californians..
In NY (I haven't spent enough time in Boston to know that it true there, but I suspect it is..) Both pedestrians and vehicles operate on the idea of "never yield" You might thing that a 3000 pound automobile or 10,000 pound truck is always going to win.. But the masses of pedestrians in both cities changes the odds.. And traffic lights, double parked cars other things slow vehicular traffic down, so, it easier for pedestrians to dart between the cars.
Rudy–(NY Mayor) has tried to enforce no jaywalking.. And in spite of occasionally handing out $50 fines, there has not been much success.. The cops don't want to write the tickets, and no one really wants thing to change..
In some cities, (i.e. Pittsburgh) when you step off the curb, traffic grinds to a halt.. very strange! and in California and Washington (state) traffic will also halt, but cops will give you ticket, on the spot.. And a talking to...
Londoners jay walk too, but not like NY'ers– Italians are like NY'ers. The Japanese are much more like Californians..
Re: Jaywalking - 06/26/01 12:14 PM
I allus figgered the main idea was don't git yer sorry pedestrian butt killed. Makes jaywalking laws self enforcing.
Re: Boston streets - 06/26/01 02:50 PM
Heard a discussion -- ages ago so don't ask -- that crossing at the corners of street is a bad idea ... far safer to cross in middle of a block where you can see cars coming. Thus elimination being struck down by someone making "a right turn on a red light."
It was pointed out dogs cross at mid-block where they have a view both ways ... of course that's country crossing, not city crossing.
It was pointed out dogs cross at mid-block where they have a view both ways ... of course that's country crossing, not city crossing.
Jaywalking - 06/26/01 03:05 PM
In the 1950's, Baltimore hired a traffic engineer named Hanry Barnes from Denver to get the then-horrible traffic under control. One of his innovations was an aid to pedestrians. Once in every cycle of traffic lights, they went red in all directions for ca. 30 seconds, at which time pedestrians were free to cross in any direction, including diagonally. This became known as the Barnes Dance, and still goes on to this day at some downtown intersections. When he moved on to New York, I believe he introduced it there, but NY was a bigger and tougher job than he figured on, I suppose, as he died of a heart attack not too long after starting there.
Barnes Dance - 06/26/01 03:28 PM
in Shibya-- a shopping center distict in downtown tokyo-- they do the same thing on a grand scale.. about 20 seconds before the signal change, they sound a horn-- and then again at 10 seconds.. and final a long toot starts -- and all the traffic stops-- where ever it is.. (drivers are supposed to try and clear the intersections, but if they don't they just stop!)-- and then starts the mad pedestrian dash-- every which way-- Shibya is a busy intersections, with several main streets crossing at odd angles, and it has a "memorial" on a island in the middle..
after a while, the is a warning horn- and 10 seconds later, an other, and finally, the last blast of the horn, and every body scrambles on to the sidewalk and the mad dash of cars starts again..
I thought it would work in some places in NY-- Times square comes to mind, and Herald square-- but NY has so many tourist-- it would be hard to "teach the rules"-- and i don't think NYers would give up jay walking anyway.
after a while, the is a warning horn- and 10 seconds later, an other, and finally, the last blast of the horn, and every body scrambles on to the sidewalk and the mad dash of cars starts again..
I thought it would work in some places in NY-- Times square comes to mind, and Herald square-- but NY has so many tourist-- it would be hard to "teach the rules"-- and i don't think NYers would give up jay walking anyway.
Re: Boston streets - 06/27/01 04:21 AM
In Singapore, pedestrians have right of way on zebra crossings, elsewhere motorists have right of way. If you cross the road within I think it's fifty metres of a zebra crossing, footbridge, or underpass you can be fined (and I gather this is enforced).
In Indonesia cross where you like. If there's more than one lane (loosely interpreted) of traffic go one lane at a time. Don't stop once you've started, it only confuses motorists. For added security, keeping your hands in normal walking position waggle the one nearest the oncoming traffic to signal that it should go round you. There don't seem to be any more accidents than there are elsewhere, but it is a nerve-racking procedure that I try to avoid.
Bingley
In Indonesia cross where you like. If there's more than one lane (loosely interpreted) of traffic go one lane at a time. Don't stop once you've started, it only confuses motorists. For added security, keeping your hands in normal walking position waggle the one nearest the oncoming traffic to signal that it should go round you. There don't seem to be any more accidents than there are elsewhere, but it is a nerve-racking procedure that I try to avoid.
Bingley