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Posted By: Lionel Koh I toiled under / in the scorching sun. - 12/01/12 07:39 PM
I toiled under / in the scorching sun, carrying heavy golf bags.

Should 'under' or 'in' be used?

Thanks.
Posted By: Faldage Re: I toiled under / in the scorching sun. - 12/01/12 10:53 PM
Either is OK.
Posted By: BranShea Re: I toiled under / in the scorching sun. - 12/05/12 10:42 AM
"At noon, farmers are weeding under the scorching sun"
Their sweat dripping down onto the ground.
Each and every grain of rice in your bowl
is the fruit of the toiling farmers."

Tang-Dynasty Poet Li Shen.
Lord Macaulay, in his epic poem, Virginia, favours "under."

"Here, in this very Forum, under the noonday sun,
In the sight of all the people, the bloody deed was done."

But Noel Coward - also a superb crafter of the English language - favours, "in."

"Mad dogs and Englishmen
Go out in the noonday sun."

That your pick, as the site foreman said to the confused Irishman, as he offered him the choice of two shovels.
Posted By: BranShea Re: I toiled under / in the scorching sun. - 12/08/12 09:46 PM
Agree, they both are good shovels. Somehow I associate 'under' sooner with tossing and toiling and solemn things;
'in' with outdoor leisure s.a. sunbathing. Just down to earth things which bring me back to your shovels.
Good point, Branshe.

What imprecise speakers like Noel Coward mean when they say "in the sun" is "into the sun" with the "to" implied. This is nonsense unless they include the rays and effects of sun as parts of its corporeal body.

Everyone can walk beneath the real sun.
No one I know can walk into the sun. smile
I don't think that Coward was implying "into" (quite apart ffrom the fact that he needed a word that scanned!)
His use is similar to that of Dorothy Slade's words (to Julian Reynolds tune) in Salad Days, "I sit in the Sun/ and one by one/I collect my thoughts/ And i think them over;"
Slade could well have used "under" in this context, but scansion, again, takes precedence. However, the two words are not inevitably interchangeable: if one talks of, "all beasts ubder the sun ..." one could not use "in". Nor could you really use "under" in the phrase in, "I am sweltering in the sun's direct rays."
Posted By: Faldage Re: I toiled under / in the scorching sun. - 12/10/12 01:29 AM
Rhuby says well.
Originally Posted By: Faldage
Rhuby says well.


Yes, Faldage. And therein lies the conflict.

Did Rhuby say "well" or is it what Rhuby has said that is well?

"In the sun" serves poetry and street speak well but would not be acceptable if used in a science paper unless one was actually going into the sun. But we quibble.

Of course we quibble. Everyone here has spoken millions and millions of words so we are all language experts. Aren't you? smile
Posted By: BranShea Re: I toiled under / in the scorching sun. - 12/10/12 11:19 AM
Yet Rhuby says well. Depending on the context interchangeable or not. The examples are fine.
Posted By: Faldage Re: I toiled under / in the scorching sun. - 12/10/12 01:18 PM
Originally Posted By: jenny jenny

"In the sun" serves poetry and street speak well but would not be acceptable if used in a science paper unless one was actually going into the sun.


"Under the sun" wouldn't much work in most science papers either. It's also pretty good for poetry or street speak.
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