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Posted By: wordsaregood a murder of crows - 10/24/11 04:47 PM
etymology of the "murder" portion of this animal-gang term is fuzzy at best. Do any of you wordies care to venture an opinion/research? Would appreciate.
Posted By: tsuwm Re: a murder of crows - 10/24/11 08:34 PM
even the OED is uncertain on this, but suggests perhaps alluding to the crow's traditional association with violent death, or, as suggested in quot. 1939, to its harsh and raucous cry.

on a related note..
Four scholars at Oxford were making their way down the street, and happened to see a group of ladies of the evening. “What’s this?” said the first. “A jam of tarts?” “Nay,” said the second, “an essay of Trollope’s.” “Rather, a flourish of strumpets,” advanced the third. “No, gentlemen,” concluded the last. “Here we have an anthology of pros.” [thanx to Quinion]
Posted By: Jackie Re: anthology of pros - 10/25/11 01:45 AM
Too bad they weren't reading at the time. (anthology of prose)
Posted By: tsuwm Re: anthology of pros - 10/25/11 04:45 AM
well, thank you, Rhonda O. wink
Posted By: BranShea Re: a murder of crows - 10/25/11 01:06 PM
Never saw this before : A murder of crows.
Looked it up. How clever we are to put the blame elsewhere since it's not the crows that do the murders (except steal eggs and tiny creatures for food). It's them that clean up our murders from war and other kills. So to they seem to me sooner a shift of crows.
Posted By: Jackie Re: anthology of pros - 10/26/11 12:37 AM
[bow] laugh
Posted By: Jackie Re: anthology of pros - 10/26/11 12:56 PM
You may call me Rhonda any time you like, sir. :^)
Posted By: Candy Re:murder of crows - 10/27/11 10:34 AM
I looked it up too and found more

Collective Words

a 'lounge of lizards' tickled my fancy.
Posted By: Jackie Re:murder of crows - 10/28/11 01:01 AM
Fancy...fancy. There oughta be something that could be. Let's see-- a fancy of...fools?
Posted By: Candy Re:murder of crows - 10/28/11 12:36 PM
I like that Jackie laugh
Posted By: zmjezhd Re:murder of crows - 10/28/11 12:38 PM
Let's see-- a fancy of...fools?

Why? We already have the perfect phrase a ship of fools.
Posted By: Candy Re:murder of crows - 10/28/11 12:59 PM
True...I'd forgotten that.
Posted By: Jackie Re:murder of crows - 10/29/11 02:55 AM
Okay, then--got any other ideas for a flight of fancy?
Posted By: Owlbow Re:murder of crows - 11/01/11 04:05 PM
A Fancy of Nancys blush (no offense intended)

of Débutantes
of Calligraphers
of Dans
of Fops
of Figure Skaters

...I should go now
Posted By: olly Re:murder of crows - 11/01/11 08:32 PM
A Fancy of Nancys

A Fancy of Pantsys smile
Posted By: BranShea Re:murder of crows - 11/02/11 08:44 AM
Pity, Owl's gone again....off with Rocky Racoon.

"Her name was Magil and she called herself Lil
But everyone knew her as Nancy"
Posted By: bexter Re:murder of crows - 11/03/11 09:37 AM
but then again, (back to the murder of crows), aren't crows and ravens and such supposed to be harbingers of doom? and they do tend to make a terrible noise and float around battlefields. They also eat my neighbours chicks, ducklings and baby pheasants...murderous things wink
Posted By: LukeJavan8 Re:murder of crows - 11/03/11 03:09 PM
Many Native American nations consider them to be
gods, or messengers of gods, even talismanic good creatures.
They are often in the totems of the Pacific Coast peoples.
Posted By: Jackie Re:murder of crows - 11/04/11 01:11 AM
bexter! laugh Good ta see ya, feller! [blowing kiss e] And yes, they are murderous, thieving things. I saw one take a baby songbird out of its nest a few years ago, the little one hanging limply from the claws as the parents fluttered frantically but uselessly. And I remember many years ago reading a story where a crow would fly into some house and steal shiny jewelry, thus getting one of the inhabitants in trouble till they found the stash. A British story, I think...hmm, it may have been a magpie. [shrug] But didn't Dickon of The Secret Garden have a crow as a pet?
Posted By: LukeJavan8 Re:murder of crows - 11/04/11 01:49 AM
And crows figure largely in HBO's "The Game of Thrones".
Posted By: olly Re:murder of crows - 11/04/11 03:45 AM
Wow, just saw a video of a murmurration of Starlings.
Posted By: Candy Re:murder of crows - 11/04/11 12:18 PM
and you thought of us olly....how nice.
Posted By: HalAl Re:murder of crows - 01/22/12 03:50 PM
One might recall Poe's "The Raven," wherein the raven (same genus as crows: corvidae) is a figure of terror. Perhaps because crows are so intelligent, even to the point of making tools, and opportunistic, we might anthropomorphically view them as murderers.
Posted By: LukeJavan8 Re:murder of crows - 01/22/12 05:12 PM
They are considered sacred by Native Tribes in the
Pacific Northwest.
Posted By: HalAl Re:murder of crows - 01/22/12 05:36 PM
As are coyotes in the Southwest.

I see you're also a Saint-Exupery fan, Luke.
Posted By: LukeJavan8 Re:murder of crows - 01/22/12 06:11 PM
Yes I am. I taught French and used "Le Petit Prince" as
a text in Second Year. Thanks for noticing.
And note the avatar which fellow poster here, Tromboniator
drew for me as per my signature.

Welcome to the site.
Posted By: HalAl Re:murder of crows - 01/23/12 12:26 AM
Originally Posted By: LukeJavan8
Yes I am. I taught French and used "Le Petit Prince" as
a text in Second Year. Thanks for noticing.

Then perhaps you can explain the use of the English, "Prince," in the title instead of "Dauphin." Perhaps because it was written in the US?


Quote:
Welcome to the site.

Thanks, but I've been here before under my full name, Hal Alexander. A computer meltdown, followed by a brain meltdown (stroke) left me unable to remember how to log in, hence the new name.
Posted By: Faldage Re:murder of crows - 01/23/12 12:39 AM
Perhaps the little prince was not the son of the King of France.
Posted By: LukeJavan8 Re:murder of crows - 01/23/12 01:48 AM
That and the Dauphin was what we call the "Crown Prince",
the heir to the throne, the next in line to be king.
But there can be many princes, male royals.
The Little Prince came from his own planet, far, far away, and
he was on a quest throughout the universe, landing on earth
along the way. He landed in the Desert, and probably knew
nothing of France. The only earth person he met was the pilot,
who drew his sheep inside a box.



After your "meltdowns: both computer and personal" I certainly
hope you are doing better.
Posted By: Jackie Re:murder of crows - 01/23/12 02:42 AM
Wow--glad you're doing better now, neighbor. Welcome back.
Posted By: Candy Re:murder of crows - 01/23/12 09:02 AM
Sounds like murder...Hal. Glad to have you back and I hope you continue to improve.
Posted By: Rhubarb Commando Re:murder of crows - 01/23/12 12:27 PM
Good to see that you have recovered enough to get back in here, Hal. Living with any sort of disability isn't easy, as I know from experience, but you do right to get on with life as fully as you possibly can. More power to your elbow (or any other part of your anatomy that needsit!)
Hope to see you here a lot.
Posted By: HalAl Re:murder of crows - 01/24/12 01:06 AM
Thanks, all. Isn't there another word for "prince" in French? It seems it was, like "dauphin," animal related, but I can't remember.

I recently learned, via a biography of St-Ex, that he flew a Caudron "Simoun," (sandstorm) into a sand dune, creating his own sandstorm. A bit of irony! But that was the setting for his wonderful story. Makes me think sometimes calamity can lead to another kind of success.
Posted By: Jackie Re:murder of crows - 01/24/12 02:23 AM
sometimes calamity can lead to another kind of success. Indeed it can. (She said, having been an instigator of many calamities.) Wouldn't it be nice if we could recognize that at the time they hit?

The ARTFL project says the French word for prince is prince.
link
Posted By: Faldage Re:murder of crows - 01/24/12 04:56 AM
The Dauphin was a particular prince, the son of the King of France. It's kinda like saying the English word for prince is The Prince of Wales.
Posted By: Rhubarb Commando Re:murder of crows - 01/24/12 10:45 AM
... and the English didn't use the word 'prince' until after William of Normandy invaded us in 1066, I believe. It isn't a title in the old Saxon or Scandinavian cultures.
Posted By: zmjezhd Re:smorgasbaard of gnobles - 01/24/12 01:03 PM
... and, prince does not always mean the 'son of a king'. On the Continent, there are princes in their own right: e.g., Monaco, Lichtenstein. German (and other Germanic languages have cognates) has Fürst. German also has Prinz. The former word is cognate with English first; in Latin princeps means literally 'first head'.

Old English had ęšeling for the 'son of a king'.
Posted By: BranShea Re:murder of crows - 01/24/12 11:17 PM
And dauphin is the French word for dolphin.
Posted By: HalAl Re:murder of crows - 01/25/12 12:32 AM
Originally Posted By: BranShea
And dauphin is the French word for dolphin.

So noted in my post above, when I stated, "...animal-related..."
I have not found what word I was looking for - and I may well be wrong. Also, the French Crown Prince's coat of arms had dolphins on it!

It would appear that the word had earlier generalized in Italy, hence Machiavelli's use of it in "Il Principe," suggesting any ruler.
Posted By: BranShea Re:murder of crows - 01/25/12 06:08 PM
The First ( not among his equals) smile probably a connection with Fürst??
Posted By: TheFallibleFiend Re:murder of crows - 01/25/12 07:43 PM
http://imgur.com/gallery/5fGK8
Posted By: Candy Re:murder of crows - 01/26/12 12:10 AM
Great find FF and I enjoyed reading the other comments there too!
Posted By: zmjezhd Re:murther of craws - 01/26/12 01:25 PM
The First [...] probably a connection with Fürst??

Yes, the are related. As is Latin princeps 'prince' with primus 'first'.
Posted By: TheFallibleFiend culture of bacteria - 01/26/12 09:16 PM
Originally Posted By: Candy


Lists the collective for bacteria as "culture," but this collective differs in character from the others in that it is more restrictive (I think). I don't think a "culture of bacteria" refers to any collection of bacteria that occurs in the wild, so to speak, but ONLY those that are grown through the process of culturing or cultivation; that is, by being put into a "growth medium" (such as agar) under the right conditions.

Anyway, this reminds me -

SUPPORT BACTERIA

(it's the only culture some people have)
Posted By: Candy Re: culture of bacteria - 01/27/12 01:47 AM
laugh
Posted By: Jackie Re: culture of bacteria - 01/27/12 03:01 AM
A friend of mine gave his son a T-shirt printed with EPIC FIAL.
Posted By: TheFallibleFiend Re: culture of bacteria - 01/27/12 03:56 AM
Originally Posted By: Jackie
A friend of mine gave his son a T-shirt printed with EPIC FIAL.


Cute! I used to have a T from a bar called "Chilkoot Charlie's Rustic Alaskan Saloon."

Front: We cheat the OTHER guy ...
Back: ... and pass the savings on to YOU!

I found a less serious set of proposed collectives here: http://all-sorts.org/
Posted By: LukeJavan8 Re: culture of bacteria - 01/27/12 04:18 PM
Those are funny. Thanks.
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