It's normal to write that a threshold has been exceeded. But it seems clumsy for some reason to describe how a minimum threshold is passed.

We could say that the threshold was exceeded, except that "exceeded" make it sound like you're describing coming from below and attaining the threshold value. Same with surpassed.

We could say that it is 'transcended', but that seems a little too pompous and I'm not sure it's any clearer.

We could say that it's 'passed', but that loses the sense of direction.

Instead I'm using the clumsier, "fell below the threshold."

Encroach? Breach? Nah.

Is there a more compact, less clumsy way of expressing this?

Outside the threshold?

I like "fell below". it's very clear, and offers opportunity for gradation: "plummeted below", "slid below", "dropped", etc.

or maybe that's what you're looking for?

maybe

below par... as in not quiet there or not usual standard

below threshold
not meet threshold or less than configuration

I'm a little unclear on just what you're after, FF. Can you give us an example?

Thanks for all the suggestions. To clarify, I'm looking for a verb to be used.

Let's say you have a threshold that is an upper limit. We can indicate with an economy of language that the threshold was passed AND that it was passed going in the direction that might offer some indication. "The threshold was exceeded." I *think* most people would infer that the threshold in this case is an upper threshold or an upper limit. So it's not just that this boundary condition was crossed, but the direction that was taken that I want to convey.

However, there are many cases when we have a lower threshold or a lower limit. If a measurement (say from a sensor) were to fall below that limit, it would be nice to say "the threshold was exceeded" or "the lower threshold was exceeded" - and I vaguely recall having seen that usage, although that could be a false memory. In any case, it's a little jarring to my ears.

As Buffalo noted, I could have said something like, "the measurement fell below the minimum threshold." It's a little wordy, but it's clear and it's also what I decided to use until I find something just as clear, but more concise. I would like to say "the threshold was X" (where X is a past tense verb).

It's not a huge deal, but if there is a better way of expressing it, I would like to know.

I don't see any reason why you should have to use the word threshold. Maybe it would be easier if you just said "the lower limit" and figured a verb from there.

In India, threshold has a special cultural significance. It is step at the door that separates the inside of the house from the outside. It has a symbolic meaning referring to the limits of a house. In the movie Umbartha (threshold) the woman of the house crosses her set limits and makes a life for herself outside the house despite being married to the man of the house. I guess because of this strong cultural reference threshold has always meant to me to be a limit to a horizontal space rather than a vertical space that can be quantified in terms of upper or lower.

Just speaking literally, you go over a threshold. The only way you would go under a threshold would be in a game of extreme limbo.

Just speaking literally, you go over a threshold. The only way you would go under a threshold would be in a game of extreme limbo.

In English, at least. In Latin limen, liminis, means 'threshold, the head-piece or foot-piece of a door, the lintel or the sill'. (Our word subliminal comes from it.) In Latin, it can also mean simply 'door' or 'house'. The post about Indian perceptions of threshold reminded me that in Latin a fanum is 'an area dedicated to a deity', such as a sanctuary or temple. Profanum means outside of this area. (Whence our profane.)

Getting back to the topic, there is a word supraliminal (link) meaning 'above the threshold of consciousness or sensation)'. Maybe you could adapt that ...

[Edited: OK, I've fixed myself some coffee, and realized I'm just rambling here. Above the threshold is not what was asked for. Just move along, nothing to glean here.]

In this case, I used threshold and lower limit interchangeably - as there was only the one limit. The verb is still the (minor) problem.

"Sub" is interesting. I wonder if there's a "sub" word that corresponds to "exceeded." Subduct seems like it should work, but geologists already use it. Also it kind makes it sound like the boundary moved instead of the measurement across the boundary. I could try and see if my editor or colleagues would easily infer the meaning.

"The lower limit was subducted."

I think you will be widely understood if you use "exceeded the lower limit" to mean going past - in fact, constructions of this sort seem to be used far more often than any other; e.g., surpassed.

or you could just "go past" the lower limit.

I think you don't usually need to be concerned with going in the opposite direction; if you are, then you need to be more circumspect in your discussion anyway!

How about transcend? Unlike exceed is only has the notion of crossing the limen, not surpassing it. Underpassing?

yea, I considered "transcend," but was worried it might be confusing. Underpass is one I had not considered. That might do.

OTOH, maybe using a few extra words here and there is okay, too.

I've been reading this, and trying to figure out exactly what you mean. I interpret you quest in 2 ways: A) how to say that something was within the threshold, but then dropped below it, and B) how to say that something never reached the lower limit of the threshold at all. The first has me more stumped. The second could simply be expressed "The threshold was unattained/unreached/uncrossed". I like "unattained". This does fit your original example, but I still can't tell if it's what you mean to say, or if you mean choice A...

Choice A.

Isn't interesting how many words 'say' the same thing but never quiet in the way we need then too. We are always looking for 'just the right one'.

The way I've been looking at this is that FF has in mind:

A) a situation where there is a limit that must be gotten above before whatever is accomplished. This is the normal "exceeding the threshold."

2) contrariwise, there is a situation where there is a limit that must be gotten below before whatever is accomplished. Given the root definition of threshold in English, I would say that that is not the word to use in this situation. All due respect to Nuncle, but I don't think that the Latin limen is a good translation for the English threshold.

Þ) I would suggest dropping the threshold word entirely and starting over, just with the term lower limit.

and, not to be repetitive (well, okay, to be just that), you've gone past (passed) the lower limit.

I don't think that the Latin limen is a good translation for the English threshold.

It's the only word I know for threshold in Latin. What would you suggest take its place? Or did you mean that limen is not an English word? My discussion of limen was merely a digression, and I always found it interesting that Latin had one word that covered two English words, i.e., threshold and lintel.

What I mean is that the limen isn't the same thing that a threshold is since it includes more than what a threshold includes. It's like saying that 'feet' is a good translation of a word meaning 'hands and feet.' You can pass under the top part of a limen or over the bottom part but you can't pass under a threshold.

Faldage has a liminal point.

I vote for that word.

You can pass under the top part of a limen or over the bottom part but you can't pass under a threshold.

You can specify limen superum 'lintel' or limen inferum 'sill, threshold' (literally, upper and lower threshold), but I see what you mean. Latin limen is not a good translation of the English scientific metaphorical notion of 'threshold', just the door jamb bits.

It's like saying that 'feet' is a good translation of a word meaning 'hands and feet.'

So, you're saying that 'finger' is not a good translation of Latin digitus, because that word can also mean 'toes', and even 'inch'? I often thought that translation is impassable.

Certainly context is our friend and if it is clear that the context supports a translation of finger for digitus the finger it is. On the other hand, using the fact that limen can mean the upper part of a door frame is no argument for using threshold as a word for a lower limit that must be gotten under to proceed.

On the other hand, using the fact that limen can mean the upper part of a door frame is no argument for using threshold as a word for a lower limit that must be gotten under to proceed.

I made no such argument, and I'm sorry I expressed myself so poorly that you believed that I did. That being said, I have no problem with using threshold to mean 'lower limit'. I see a threshold as being a threshold no matter whether you enter the house over it or exit the house over it. I see it as a sort of terminus both ante quem and post quem.

I guess it was just your pointing out that the Latin word could refer to both the upper and lower parts of the door frame that got me off on my gripe.

traverse?

Contravened? Undershot?

I *like* that!

undershot gives me the impression of never quite reaching the lower threshold, as opposed to falling below that threshold.

Boogers.

Plunged?

well, you don't have to have that impression!

;¬ )

I tell ya, man. Drop the whole threshold metaphor for this sort of thing. It just ain't working. I'm with Buffy on the rejection of undershot.

The word "threshold" is commonly understood in computer science (and probably throughout engineering). I suspect it has a formal definition in technical dictionaries that has no relation and probably no reference to its etymology. In that field, I don't think it's a metaphor - any more than "semaphore," "key," or "web" - at least not in the minds of those who use it in this technical sense.

The audience of my writing is generally technical - engineers mostly, hard scientists, but occasionally a non-technical person who is otherwise surrounded by technical people. My guess is that even this person would understand the word threshold in the context I have described. I don't know for sure, but I strongly suspect that none of them (or only a very few) would be aware of the etymology, let alone be confused by the use of the term.

Of course I could (and often do) use the terms "upper limit" and "lower limit." But it makes otherwise dry text less monotonous, if I mix up the vocabulary a little. Also there are some few cases when I need to refer collectively to upper and lower limits.

So if it's commonly used but you still can't think of a way of saying what you want to say, I'd say that there's still a sense of 'getting over' in the minds of those using the term.. If you want to spice up your language maybe something like "under the bar'.

sounds like we're in limbo....

Heh

cute