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I would like to know the origin of the phrase "sea change". Thanks.
Posted By: zmjezhd Re: sea change - 01/09/10 04:21 PM
It comes from a song in Shakespeare's The Tempest (link).
Quote:
Full fathom five thy father lies,
Of his bones are coral made,
Those are pearls that were his eyes,
Nothing of him that doth fade,
But doth suffer a sea-change,
into something rich and strange,
Sea-nymphs hourly ring his knell,
Ding-dong.
Hark! now I hear them, ding-dong, bell.
[Fixed misspelling.]
Posted By: Faldage Re: sea change - 01/09/10 06:07 PM
Originally Posted By: zmjezhd
It comes from a song in Shakespeare's The Tempast


That's fine for Tempast, but what about Tempresent?
Posted By: BranShea Re: sea change - 01/09/10 07:15 PM
Zmjezhd's sea-change for tempest. So from the original meaning
' a change caused by the sea' it is more generally used as 'transformation'?
link
Posted By: Faldage Re: sea change - 01/09/10 10:29 PM
Generally it seems to me it means a major change. Transformation might be a good definition.
Posted By: Buffalo Shrdlu Re: sea change - 01/10/10 12:30 AM
a paradigm shift.
Posted By: Zed Re: sea change - 01/10/10 02:31 AM
I had assumed it was a sailor's term for the complete change in sailing conditions that you sometimes get very quickly on the ocean.
Welcome, Letia. zmjezhd is right; however, here is a more reliable source than that dumb old Wikipedia.
I must admit that I have never heard the phrase used as a generic "transformation"; only ever to describe the move from the rat-race of the city to relaxed sea-side living (most commonly applied to middle-aged couples who move once the nest is empty). The general meaning may well have been (mis-)appropriated by the real-estate industry for all I know. However, I suspect many people would think the general meaning of transformation derived from the concept of a drastic change of lifestyle. cf "tree-change"
Posted By: BranShea Re: sea change - 01/10/10 10:32 AM
The Shakespeare line is clear enough, but maybe he uses it as a metaphor from a real sailors' term.
Posted By: zmjezhd Re: sea change - 01/10/10 12:12 PM
however, here is a more reliable source than that dumb old Wikipedia.

Holding up Etymonline in contrast toe Wikipedia is sort of proof that USans do do irony.
Posted By: zmjezhd Re: sea change - 01/10/10 12:15 PM
The Shakespeare line is clear enough, but maybe he uses it as a metaphor from a real sailors' term.

No doubt a possibility. But Shakespeare got it into print first.
Posted By: BranShea Re: sea change - 01/10/10 01:52 PM
Agree, agree totally.
Posted By: zmjezhd Re: sea change - 01/10/10 02:47 PM
agree totally

I looked around on Google Books for full view scanned texts having searched on "sea change", and most of the results, in context, have the meaning transformation. Hardly any of the sightings have anything to do with the sea or maritime activities.
Posted By: tsuwm Re: sea change - 01/10/10 05:30 PM
true that.

OED2 has it like this:
sea-change, a change wrought by the sea; now freq. transf. with or without allusion to Shakespeare's use (quot. 1610), an alteration or metamorphosis, a radical change

1610 SHAKES. Temp. I. ii. 400 Nothing of him that doth fade, But doth suffer a *Sea-change Into something rich, & strange. 1917 E. POUND Lustra 193 Full many a fathomed sea~change in the eyes That sought with him the salt sea victories. 1923 J. M. MURRY Pencillings 164 The characters which have suffered this sea-change, ‘of whose bones are coral made’, are the only unpleasant characters we remember. 1948 A. C. BAUGH Lit. Hist. England II. IX. 173 An interesting paper suggesting that romance is transplanted epic, which has undergone a kind of sea-change in the passage. 1974 R. HELMS Tolkien's World ii. 32 Even before The Hobbit was published he was at work on its sequel, a work in which Middle-earth has undergone a wondrous sea change. 1976 Listener 8 Apr. 450/3 The Messianic vision..has undergone some strange sea~changes outside Judaism. 1977 ‘E. CRISPIN’ Glimpses of Moon vii. 117 He..could, moreover..bring about a sea~change in the image of even the most bumbling police officers going about their duties, so that they emerged as prodigies of intelligence, zeal and kindness.
[EA]
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