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Posted By: Philip Davich Notoriety - 12/08/09 03:32 PM
In a story on NPR yesterday(http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=121146834), the correspondent said the five-game undefeated streak on Jeopardy 22 years ago by Ohio Attorney General Richard Cordray won him "notoriety". When I learned the word, "notoriety" was a negative type of fame or atttention. The use of the word in the NPR story, though, is synonymous with "popularity" or "celebrity". The NPR story is just the latest example of the transformation of the meaning of this word into it's polar opposite has become commonplace. I wonder how this happened. Are there other words that have undergone a similar transformation?
Posted By: twosleepy Re: Notoriety - 12/08/09 05:21 PM
Welcome, Philip!

I can't speak for anyone else, but notoriety is not always negative to me, but interestingly, notorious always is. Surely it originally connoted negativity, but it has changed, as you say. I think NPR's usage is less positive than you have inferred, and is more neutral in meaning, as "attention".

I don't think it would be possible to list all the words to which this has happened because there are just too many! One in particular leaps to mind, and that is "decimate" and all its forms. The original meaning was destruction of every tenth, which isn't too bad, but nowadays people use it to mean completely destroyed. Oh well! :0)
Posted By: tsuwm Re: Notoriety - 12/08/09 06:49 PM
it's a common enough concept that several words have been coined; f.i.,
contranym - Definition: any word that can be its own antonym, e.g. cleave, overlook; also called antilogy, autoantonym, contronym, enantiodrome, [Janus word]
Example: Handicap is a good example of a contranym.
[dictionary.com]

(enantiodrome has a onelook number of two)

here's a local link which covers many of the aspects of this concept.

and I'll note particularly 'cleave', to save Faldage the trouble of noting it again; see the link.

Posted By: Faldage Re: Notoriety - 12/09/09 12:20 AM
Thank you, tsuwm.

I will note, however, in my contranimic way, that the meaning for notoriety as used in the NPR item referred to and the sense that Philip Davich would prefer are not exactly polar opposites. They denote basically the same thing, it's just their connotations that are somewhat different.
Posted By: Jackie Re: Notoriety - 12/09/09 03:16 AM
[Re: Philip Davich]
Welcome, Richard!


Okay--do you know something we don't?
Posted By: twosleepy Re: Notoriety - 12/09/09 04:16 AM
Oops.
Posted By: twosleepy Re: Notoriety - 12/09/09 04:18 AM
Originally Posted By: Faldage
I will note, however, in my contranimic way, that the meaning for notoriety as used in the NPR item referred to and the sense that Philip Davich would prefer are not exactly polar opposites.


I need some extensive explanation, because I don't even understand that sentence...
Posted By: Faldage Re: Notoriety - 12/09/09 12:00 PM
PD: When I learned the word, "notoriety" was a negative type of fame or attention. The use of the word in the NPR story, though, is synonymous with "popularity" or "celebrity". The NPR story is just the latest example of the transformation of the meaning of this word into its polar opposite has become commonplace.

F: ... the meaning for notoriety as used in the NPR item referred to and the sense that Philip Davich would prefer are not exactly polar opposites. They denote basically the same thing, it's just their connotations that are somewhat different.

In either case they mean "well-known". It's just a question of whether they're well-known in a positive sense or a negative sense. The polar opposite of "well-known in a positive sense" would be some variety of "unknown".

'S'all I'm sayin'.

That said, AHD4 agrees with PD about the connotations of notoriety, i.e., it's basically 'being known in a negative way'. OED, on the other hand, has both neutral and negative definitions going back to the mid-16th century. PD has a good question, though.
The use of the word in the NPR story, though, is synonymous with "popularity" or "celebrity".

I blame txt-thumbers, non-native Anglophones, laxicographers, linguine technocrats, semantic smearistas, and Sapirian drifters for this level-4 state. Communication is impossible, ceases, and the English, she is ruined.
Posted By: BranShea Re: Notoriety - 12/09/09 01:58 PM
Originally Posted By: twosleepy
Originally Posted By: Faldage
I will note, however, in my contranimic way, that the meaning for notoriety as used in the NPR item referred to and the sense that Philip Davich would prefer are not exactly polar opposites.


I need some extensive explanation, because I don't even understand that sentence...
Me too. What is it with this sentence that does not seem to run smooth? Except for your IMO sensible answer what ìs this? St

grin A glitsj on top of it,well............

Philip Davich, don't be alarmed please, some particles loose here.
Posted By: Faldage Re: Notoriety - 12/10/09 12:16 AM
OK, let's try again:

Originally Posted By: Faldage
I will note, however, in my contranimic way, that


That was just preliminary and can, for purposes of exegesisating myself, be ignored. Now, on to the meat of the sentence:

Originally Posted By: Faldage
the meaning for notoriety


is used in two ways

1:
Originally Posted By: Faldage
as used in the NPR item referred to


and 2:
Originally Posted By: Faldage
as used in the sense that Philip Davich would prefer


These two ways:
Originally Posted By: Faldage
are not exactly polar opposites.
Posted By: BranShea Re: Notoriety - 12/10/09 03:55 PM
"that the meaning for notoriety as used in the NPR item referred to and the sense that Philip Davich would prefer are not exactly polar opposites."

'that the meaning for notority as ( used ) in the NPR item referred to -
and the sense that Philip Davich would prefer are not exactly polar opposites.'

Somehow, when I take the 'used' out, it all reads clear to me.
Posted By: Faldage Re: Notoriety - 12/11/09 01:11 AM
Just another case proving that one is least capable of finding one's own garden path sentences.
Posted By: BranShea Re: Notoriety - 12/11/09 09:15 AM
Garden path sentences. Wel, I did try but never mind. Give me a garden path any time. link Best solution: monepics.
Posted By: Jackie Re: Notoriety - 12/12/09 01:24 AM
WOW--you really appreciate (and I mean that in its fullest sense) nature, don't you? [impressed as all get out e]
Posted By: BranShea Re: Notoriety - 12/12/09 05:09 PM
A joy forever.
Posted By: wsieber Re: Notoriety - 12/13/09 03:07 PM
Somehow, when I take the 'used' out, it all reads clear to me.
Brilliant smile !
How often, in an effort to make things clearer, we add something instead of leaving something out.
Originally Posted By: zmjezhd
The use of the word in the NPR story, though, is synonymous with "popularity" or "celebrity".

I blame txt-thumbers, non-native Anglophones, laxicographers, linguine technocrats, semantic smearistas, and Sapirian drifters for this level-4 state. Communication is impossible, ceases, and the English, she is ruined.


Coffee + keyboard = not good combination.
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