which is the origin of your interest, passion?

why are they so important to you ?

Best I can do is relate a tale from my youth: We had read a story in, I dunno, fourth or fifth grade (nine or ten years old) that took place in Australia. One of the new words we got in the story was kookaburra. The glossary for the story defined it as 'laughing jackass'. Somehow I was the only one in the class (including the teacher) who managed to figure out that a kookaburra was a bird. I was marked wrong on the test for not parroting back 'laughing jackass' when asked what a kookaburra was.

teachers are so fallible! I had an English teacher who redlined me for using the nonword (she claimed) 'careering' (we went careering down the mountain road). [not to be confused with careening]

Never paying much attention to words, except to pass a spelling
test and never having won a spelling bee, nor did I care, I was
re-arranging my books, pens, etc., when my 9th grade teacher
in Grammar/English/Literature stated that he was going to
give the list of grades in descending order. "And at the top
of the list", he said, as he announced my name. I was so
stunned I dropped the books making quite a scene. From that day
forward I was enamored with words. Something meant something to
me.

I, too, had to correct my Language teacher, in the 9th grade, for not understanding the difference between transparent and translucent. she was, otherwise, a wonderful teacher!

but I grew up with words; we would say that we kept a place for the dictionary at the dinner table.

Mine is a similar account. My primary teacher corrected impetus to impetuous even after I tried to explain. The story went along the lines of...as we rolled down the hill we gained impetus...He was a renown sports teacher though. It was mum who instilled an early love of reading in me and in later years my English teacher.

I think three things have influenced my interest:

1. the study of orthography in the 8th grade
2. the study of Greek in college and seminary
3. an appointment to a church committee responsible for drafting church law

My favorite(?) word is Greek: 'elikrineis (helikrinace) translation: sincere. Literally: tested by the sun.

I love words because I love books and that's what books are made
of. I love words because I love a good conversation and that's what conversations are made of. They also are good stuff for games.
I'm sure I loved books and booklets before I knew about words. And picture postcards. They made me aware that there was more to life than what I saw around me.
All my language teachers were better than me, that's what they were supposed to be

The study of another language can be a real mind-opener.

Sitting around the dinner table, day after day, watching (and listening to) my parents solve the cryptic crossword, made me realise that the meaning of a word is as dependent on the user / listener as on the dictionary definition. I also find that as my vocabulary grows, so does my ability to think in different ways. I'd love to be able to think in another language...

Does anyone have a word for that sensation you get when you realise you're better at something than the person who is teaching you, but you don't want them to know because your concerned it will hurt them?

Me too.
My parents didn't read much for own enjoyment, nor do my brother or his wife. But they all read to their children. My mother used to read to us at the breakfast table when I was in elementary school, one chapter each day. My grandfather read incessantly as do my niece and I so maybe it's hereditary.

I like the physical pleasures associated with words as well, the sound of some poetry and the feel of certain words in my mouth just as I love the feel of the paper and the smell and weight of the old books I collect.

"I caught this morning morning's minion,
kingdom of daylight's dauphin,
dapple, dawn-drawn falcon in his riding..."

PS what a wonderful question, and what lovely memories it has brought back.

compassion?

I love words as they are an important part of language. Besides items in the lexicon, I love morphology, the fiddly bits of language, and syntax, how words get placed next to one another to bring about meaning: grammar in its technical meaning. It's origin is my discovery of the OED in the high school library, and being exposed to speakers of non-standard varieties of English, Swiss German, and Ligurian Italian at an early and impressionable age.

Enlightenment?

embarrassment?

About thinking in a different language; it does not really change much to your thinking.
Or make you understand the different culture any better. It works automatically,unconsiously. The you is just the same you. (or me)

What about the process of getting to the point of being able to think in another language though? For an adult that takes a great deal of time and effort and surely involves developing a greater understanding of at least some of the culture associated with the language. That also seems to be what Faldage was saying. They did not say "thinking in another language can be a real mind-opener". They said Perhaps I misunderstood them but the difference between what they said and what you said seems significant.

I agree with both.



I have quoted it before but I still like it. "You are as many times a man (sic) as languages you know."

If you read once more what I wrote in my post, you see I answered to doc_'s question and only to the thinking in a different language part of doc's post. I did not mention anyting about the study of it. The mind-opening part in that being obvious and the real joy of it. It adds a lot to the understanding of different cultures. Thinking in a different language does not add anything to that.
That was my statement if I may call it so.
You drew conclusions from what I said not.

Thank you for the clarification. In the post of yours I replied to you there were no quote indicators and I did not know about doc comfort's post. It was a misunderstanding by me and an example of why I always quote any post I refer to so that the source is clear.

Ah, that's the thrifty Du. mentality. I did quote the doc_comfort's question, but not his musings about thinking in a foreign language. I'll keep it mind, thanks.

Fwiw, I have a number of bilingual friends who can think in both languages and report that they feel like there's a slight shift in mood / energy / something when they change language. Maybe they are experiencing a mild form of culture shock.

I'm sure that language and culture have not developed in isolation; that there may be some objective way of measuring a language, from which you could determine characteristics of the society in which is it used. I also think that this must apply on an indivual level; that the *words you have at your disposal are not completely distinct from they way you think / feel / etc.

Of course, I have no evidence to support any of that.

I don't know if anyone else has this experience, but I know that I can think in two languages because I can be confused in two languages! If I begin listening to someone speaking, and my expectation of what language will be spoken is wrong, there is a delay whilst my ear/brain switches gears. For example, when listening to the radio, there may be an interview with someone. Often if the person is speaking a LOTE, the editors will run a few seconds of the person speaking in his or her native language before beginning a translation. If, instead, the person being interviewed speaks English, but with a heavy accent, I may be momentarily confused as my ear hears something that sounds like a LOTE, but it's actually English. This is worst when the LOTE is Spanish, the other language in which I am fluent. It can happen either way, when I expect Spanish and hear English or expect English and hear Spanish.

My love of words has to have been inherited/pounded in to me by my dad, who worked as a editor, at one point in his career. I can't remember, after learning to read, being given the meaning of any word orally. And I still love dictionaries! :0)

Yes, there is something to it. When you think in a different language the memory
"luggage" of that language turns up . All the experiences of any possible nature you have had in that language back up your thinking .They may color your thoughts a bit.

The thinking in that language imo means you master the language to the point of automatics, but it does no extra for understanding that culture.

I thought about this because I noticed that after having been on this board for quite a while I became aware of the fact that the American culture is far more different from the European than I ever suspected. I've visited often enough, but I think I would only understand the culture if, like my sister, I would have lived out there most part of my life. Also in France, there are those little, yet very important cultural, social differences you only really will get at when you live there for a long time. ( and still up to a point)

I often find myself thinking in English, or French, depending to what
influence I am exposed, but I it's like in my native tongue.
And I tell myself: "Hey! Use your mother's language!"

Quite right! This is why I don't read for pleasure in Spanish. I know I will never really "get" a lot of what is assumed readers know, or have experienced, and I know I will miss out on truly understanding the work, because of my lack in cultural knowledge. Now having said that, I would attempt a work set in Chile, as having lived there a full year, I have at least a smattering of cultural understanding that might stand by me well enough. Do I avoid works written about Australia or South Africa because I haven't experienced those cultures, even though they may be written in English? Maybe I do, except non-fiction. I have had enough parlance with UK culture to feel comfortable. :0)

Oi, you are taking elephant steps. Reading is something else. The basic motivation for reading is not to get more understanding of different cultures, that may be a pleasant side side effect. Reading is for the pleasure of reading, in whatever language you're can handle. Fiction, autobiografies, history, poetry. Try Pedro Paramo by Juan Rulfo. Translations are never as good as the original.

Something I remember now. I had read Kafka's America before I first came to New York and visited a friend in Hoboken. The streets there reminded me strongly of Kafka's descriptions; this was precisely the America from his book. Yet Kafka has never been to America. This sort of contradicts what I've said. Sorry. Bit weird.

Perhaps life imitates art. America is Kafka-esque.

The interplay between culture and language is complex and certainly not a one way street.

Thanks, The Pook, nice to see you back. I got somewhat lost in this part of my 'ideas'. You're right.

About thinking in a different language

I am not always sure that people think in a language. For me, there's the suspicion that people reason in a language (or talk to themselves in one). How is thought different from imagination or dreaming? Dreams for me, are more about images (sometimes in B&W and others times in 'Scope, Technicolor, and stereophonic sound). Is thought capable without language? Are some thoughts inexpressible in a language or one's language. I do not (or cannot) deny that language and thought (ideas) are somehow involved with one another.

As for the meanings (or maybe the connotations) of words being variable amongst different speakers (and at different times), I am also interested how the context of a word oftentimes determines or narrows its meaning. Words in isolation tend towards a pale ambiguity or bleached polysemy.

Just musing.

You finish in poetry anyway...
It seems to me that large parts of the time we are not aware of the fact that we are thinking. Some passive underground mechanism going on. Pops up to conscious levels regularly. When we have to solve problems we are sharply aware of our brain activity. Only Descartes (here he is again) loved to be aware of his thoughts while just being. (idle)
Just musing too.

I think we will find (eventually) that thinking and feeling are resonances in the brain (and body) of energy; areas sympathetically vibrate on some level based around experience. these "vibrations" or "tones" are not necessarily identifiable by our current technologies, but that may be because we're just looking at things the wrong way.

Maybe some TYROSINE nicked from the scrabble thread will be of help. This is putting too much strain on my brain. I sneak back to the initial post. I love words just for what they are. Just because.

Do they do simple math in both languages? In my experience, math is a skill that is usually done in a person's dominant language. And, when transferring to a new language, math skills and dreams are the last parcels of a prior language that are retained.

Seems like these are going to be the most quoted lines of the week.
Come to think of it I experience a slight shift in mood/energy perpetually.
Yet I do not think in that many languages.

Words let you communicate realities you already know, or they help you imagine realities you don't. I suspect anyone who takes reality seriously will be naturally inclined to logophilia. But woe to the word lover who confuses words with realities.

I love the Greek word 'elikrineis (helikrinace) not merely because of its meaning, which is "sincere," but also because of its etymology.

OK. Spill. What's its etymology?

The word is εἰλικρινής (link and link).

from jim's second link: "The etymology and derivation of these words in Greek has always been doubtful."