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Posted By: BranShea on the qui vive - 12/01/07 01:51 PM
Quote:
Inuit qiviuq, down, underhair] /KEE vee ut/
the soft wool of the undercoat of the musk ox
When I read this on wwftd I wondered if the word/expression
'qui vive' (not related) existed in English. I found it in 18 dictionaries but I never met it in a book or text otherwise.

My question is: Is it used in spoken language? (like we do) Is it out of date? Is it only used in this form: 'on the qui vive' or also in a personalized way: "If you go there be on your qui vive". When I talk to him I have to be on my qui vive.
When we step in ice we have to be on our qui vive, etc.
Although my life does not depend on it, this is a serious question.


Posted By: Faldage Re: on the qui vive - 12/01/07 01:55 PM
It theoretically exists in English but I don't know that I've ever spotted it in the wild.
Posted By: tsuwm Re: on the qui vive - 12/01/07 04:16 PM
I see it occasionally in the news.

I just now read this: in French, qui vive is used as a challenge, "who goes there?"; as English idiom, "on the qui vive" means on the alert.

I don't recall seeing it 'outside' the idiom (in English).
Posted By: of troy Re: on the qui vive - 12/01/07 06:35 PM
the yarn is usually (today in most knitting magazines and ads) spelled quiveit. with a final t (to match how it said)

is one of the most expensive yarns i know of.. (and it is said to be one of the warmest animal fibers around)

---------------------------------------------------
on the real question of the OP, i know the expression qui vive, but i don't think i have ever used my self! (not in writting or speaking!)
Posted By: BranShea Re: on the qui vive - 12/01/07 09:19 PM
If 'quiveit 'is as fine as eider down, I can imagine the yarn must be expensive and also very warm. I tried to find an image but no wiki nor google.

On the real question; so it is not alive in spoken language; in Am.English anyway.
I learn more about my language here than I do in Holland.
Never knew where it came from till now. And we use it.

online etymology:
1726, from Fr. qui voulez-vous qui vive? sentinel's challenge, "whom do you wish to live," lit. "live who?" In other words, "whose side are you on?"
Posted By: themilum Re: on the qui vive - 12/02/07 12:33 AM
I wonder...the English phrase "keep it on the Q.T." sounds suspiciously like the French phrase "keep it on the qui vive". I wonder if there is a French or English bastardized mistransfiguration?
Posted By: Faldage Re: on the qui vive - 12/02/07 12:41 AM
Originally Posted By: themilum
I wonder...the English phrase "keep it on the Q.T." sounds suspiciously like the French phrase "keep it on the qui vive". I wonder if there is a French or English bastardized mistransfiguration?


I suppose, if they meant anything like each other.
Posted By: themilum Re: on the qui vive - 12/02/07 01:27 AM
Originally Posted By: BranShea in part
...'on the qui vive' or also in a personalized way: "If you go there be on your qui vive". When I talk to him I have to be on my qui vive.
When we step in ice we have to be on our qui vive, etc.


Originally Posted By: Faldage
I suppose, if they meant anything like each other.


Really?

"On the Q.T." is but a short step to "be careful".

(Considering translanguaging.)
Posted By: Faldage Re: on the - 12/02/07 01:51 AM
Q. T.
Posted By: themilum Re: on the - 12/02/07 02:41 AM
Quote:
Wordorigins.org,
Dave Wilton, February 27, 2007
On the q.t. is slang for quietly. q.t., is an abbreviation for quiet. (Source: Oxford English Dictionary)


Has it come to this Faldage? Are you now quoting Dave Wilton and the Oxford Dictionary rather than giving the subject at hand some thought?

Ah, I remember well when your finger thought less than your brain.
Posted By: BranShea Re: on the - 12/02/07 11:01 AM
Back to Helen. The original Inuit word gave information and image of the wool and more about the yarn. Sounds like very precious indeed.

Qiviuq

Q.T.
Although the basics may be different this expression covers the same meaning, imo. When you have to be on the qui vive in the wilderness the first important thing is to be quiet, alert.
Posted By: Buffalo Shrdlu Re: on the - 12/02/07 12:10 PM
I've always thought of "on the QT" as being on the sly. and I've never heard nor read the qui vive thang.
Posted By: BranShea Re: on the - 12/02/07 12:34 PM
Quote:
on the sly.

Also in the more 'negative'(?) meaning it belongs to being careful?
Posted By: Buffalo Shrdlu Re: on the - 12/02/07 12:39 PM
Originally Posted By: BranShea
Quote:
on the sly.

Also in the more 'negative'(?) meaning it belongs to being careful?


nope. just on the sly.
Posted By: Hydra Re: on the - 12/02/07 01:11 PM
I came across "on the q. t." in Ulysses, and had to look it up.

I'll give the paragraph for context:

Quote:
All kinds of places are good for ads. That quack doctor for the clap used to be stuck up in all the greenhouses. Never see it now. Strictly confidential. Dr Hy Franks. Didn't cost him a red like Maginni the dancing master self advertisement. Got fellows to stick them up or stick them up himself for that matter on the q. t. running in to loosen a button. Flybynight. Just the place too. POST NO BILLS. POST 110 PILLS. Some chap with a dose burning him.


Bloom is talking about a Dr Franks posting advertisements for treatment of venereal disease in the men's room. He is definitely using "on the q. t." to mean, "on the sly".

Besides, just look in the dictionary:

Quote:
QT (also q.t.) noun (in phrase on the QT) informal secretly; stealthily: she'd better get there on the QT.

ORIGIN late 19th cent.: abbreviation of quiet .


Quote:
on the quiet informal without anyone knowing or noticing; secretly or unobtrusively.




Posted By: BranShea Re: on the - 12/02/07 01:39 PM
Quote:
nope. just on the sly.

Oh woops.What I meant was when you 'go on the sly' you have to be extra 'on the qui vive'and vice versa (allright the words are out of use but still..); meaning the two are closely related. No big deal though.
Posted By: tsuwm Re: on the - 12/02/07 03:30 PM
the telling point here is that you wouldn't use the two expressions interchangeably.

if you tell me something on the QT, you're passing along some sort of secret; not particularly alert to what's going on around you; maybe gossiping, with your mind in a turmoil.

if you're on the qui vive, you're alert and listening.

-joe (nuances are important in language) friday
Posted By: BranShea Re: on the - 12/02/07 04:49 PM
I understand this perfectly clear and maybe one day I'll tell you (on the Q.T.) why this gives me a hearty laugh.
Posted By: zmjezhd Re: on the - 12/02/07 05:02 PM

According to the second of the two squibs in Notes and Queries on page 336: the verb is in the subjeunctive who may live?.

According to the entry on qui vive in the Trésor de la Langue Française Informatisé, one of the earliest citations is in Thomas of Woodstock. 1419. Chronique du Religieux de St-Denys: "Interrogati secundum communem modum loquendi: Qui vivat, qui vivat? respondebant: Rex, regina et dux Burgundie, nomen Dalphini tacentes." (They were challenged in the usual manner saying: "Qui vive? Qui vive?" They answered "The King, the Queen, and the Duke of Burgundy," being quiet about the name of the Dauphin.) It's in the subjunctive there in Latin. Seems to me that on the Q.T. means quietly, whereas as being challenged with qui vive? one would speak up if one knew the password and could pronounce any shibboleths.
Posted By: Faldage Re: on the - 12/02/07 05:24 PM
Originally Posted By: themilum

Has it come to this Faldage? Are you now quoting Dave Wilton and the Oxford Dictionary rather than giving the subject at hand some thought?


I gave it some thought and what I thought is that I would take the word of people who know what they're talking about before I would take the word of a couple of guys who, although reasonably intellegient, were merely voicing WAGs.
Posted By: themilum Re: on the - 12/02/07 06:04 PM
Originally Posted By: Faldage


I gave it some thought and what I thought is that I would take the word of people who know what they're talking about before I would take the word of a couple of guys who, although reasonably intellegient, were merely voicing WAGs.


Ok, that did it! My feelings are hurt. I'm getting out of here on the PDQ, and PDQ doesn't stand for no nasaled prissy French term, PDQ is American and stands for Pretty Damn Quick.

Bye.
Posted By: Faldage Re: on the - 12/02/07 08:07 PM
You saying that P. D. Q. Bach's full name was Pretty Damn Quick Bach? I don't think so!
Posted By: themilum Re: on the - 12/02/07 09:25 PM


P.D.Q.Bach was the worst of the Bachs and you know it.

But your impressive knowledge of classical music is mediated by all the funky thoughts that listening to PBS NPR has caused you to think.

Stop it now.
Posted By: tsuwm Re: on the - 12/02/07 10:24 PM
before *this gets out of hand..
a) just the facts on P.D.Q. Bach
b) that should be NPR, not PBS (no TV in that house!)

-joe (once again, setting things straight) friday
Posted By: themilum Re: on the - 12/03/07 12:21 AM
Thanks Friday, I don't listen to Pinko radio so I don't know their call letters. And thank you also for exposing Faldage for trying to pass off a phoney Bach as the real McCoy much like he cited that British snoot John Wilton as the cat's pajamas.

What would we do without you?
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