I had not realized until an episode in "engines" called it to my attention, that few high schools
now teach any manual arts. I had woodworking in junior high, drafting in high school. I was
lucky that my father had all kinds of power tools for me to learn to use. Only my vision keeps
me from using them now. I know the schools have been forced to add so many things they
were compelled to drop the manual arts courses. But the kids are being deprived of something
extremely valuable. See this URL: http://www.uh.edu/engines/epi1556.htm

both the school I teach in and the school my sons go to still teach some "manual arts". (just don't call it "shop"! )

my school( a 5th - 8th grade Middle School) has "Tech Ed" which encompasses power tools to 3d graphics with computers. my oldest son(a 7th grader) recently brought home a nice 1 drawer bureau/bedstand type piece constructed from pine complete with routered(routed?) edges. we keep the video game players in and on it...



you are right though, Bill. this type of class is often one of the first to be cut at budget time.

Vocational high schools work with area companies through an ICE (Industrial Cooperative Education) program, as the trade unions need immediately employable high school graduates. A full one half of the school day for juniors and seniors is devoted to either your "shop" studies (sorry etaoin) or on-the-job apprentice training. These weren't college prepatory at all as the ciriculum became skeletal (even if everyone had to take drafting).

There were plenty of 'good paying' jobs as an electrician, Heating/AC, auto mechanic, auto body, carpenter, metal worker/machine shop, etc... in the neighborhood. I was lucky to have 'Music' as my shop (the last years they did that). This was before the days of hiring a DJ for your wedding.

Interesting subject. Some random thoughts. (Stated as fact, though, it's really just my opinion.)


1. Liberal education, as Mortimer Adler says, in "The Paedaiea Proposal" concerns A-vocation which is the opposite of vocation. It's more about making the mind beautiful than about giving people skills.

2. In general, we expect nearly everyone to go to college. In fact, they really need to in order to get jobs. Not that they *really* need it, but that stated job requirements often don't have anything to do with the real demands of the job.

3. My memories of shop are nightmares. I intensely hated my shop teachers - who just happened to be the P.E. teachers. I was never able to complete projects, b/c the bullies would take my stuff throughout the entire class and hide it. I never finished a project - no matter how simple - not one. This is unfortunate, b/c I think it would be a very good skill to have. I can do simple things - things that I can deduce from logic - and I have a number of friends and family who are very good at this sort of thing.

4. I also think it should be available to girls. And both boys and girls should know the basics of cooking. I've wondered for some time now about the viability of, not a single course, but a series of related courses on modern living. Six weeks of shop, 6 of home repair (install light switches and bathroom tiles, e.g.), 6 of auto maintenance, 6 of home ec, 6 of checkbooks and budgets, 6 of family planning, 6 on voting (where, how to register), 6 weeks on volunteer work.

5. But before you suggest I'm being reasonable, I will say that I also think that bullies should be slowly and excrutiatingly tortured to death and their worthless "parents" be made to watch it. Then we start on the "teachers" who condoned it. (I'm quite serious. No hyberbole. I'm convinced mine is the only ethical solution and other opinions are based on spurious pseudo-ethics.)

6. The light at the end of the tunnel is that in very many technical areas, vocational training is on the rebound. Many employers look for certifications and some will even take them in lieu of college. The bad news is that unsavory people follow the money and there is no end of creeps who will give these poor people a piece of paper without sufficient training. (So employers look for standard certifications, like MCSE, etc.) So people can learn to build and program robots and assembly lines, fix computers, etc. There will almost certainly develop a cottage industry around training techs to fix fuel cell cars.

k

Dear FF: off the track a bit, but what you said about bullies reminded me of it. One of the worst
problems in all schools is the compulsion to keep the ones who are there only to make trouble.
Warehousing them so they can torment the motivated ones. One of the best things about the
highschool I went to was the speed with which they booted out any kid who would not behave.
The working conditions for the teachers were so good, that there were quite a few teachers who
had been offered college jobs and turned them down.
Now teachers have to take an awful lot of crap. A man I knew when i lived on the Cape got
enraged because shop teacher sent his son home for starting a tablesaw without permission,
and tore up to the school and punched out the teacher. And got away with it. And that is just
the worst of a string of horror stories I could tell. So bullies should be kicked out of school,
not warehoused to torment the motivated kids.

In our school it's compulsory for all students to do some form of manual arts, we call it Design and Technology, until the age of 16. This isn't part of the National Curriclum though, and I'm not sure about most other school's policies on D & T here in the UK.

When I was in high school, we needed at least 3 credits from 4 different categories of classes. Amazingly, my so-called arts credits came from double-period home ec and grade 10 electronics!!! Grade 11 electronics, however, counted as a science/math credit.
Because I was the only girl in electronics, the teacher let me have the radio I built (I bet my mother still has it somewhere).

I think all our mandatory classes like this were in junior high.

I don't recall taking any shop-like stuff in high school. I know that had certain things available - like home ec and auto repair - but they weren't mandatory.

k

In my high school, there were no shop classes, and as far as I know, the home ec classes were being phased out. As I was leaving though, the junior high shop teacher received a grant to teach in high school. Basically, what I had of "manual" classes were in junior high: woodshop with the above mentioned teacher (a fairly enjoyable but otherwise not very educational class) and "skills for living", sewing and cooking etc. Both classes were co-ed. I suppose looking back now I would have perhaps benefitted from taking the drafting class offered in my high school, but I don't think many other people would have. (It's not very useful to anyone not majoring in architecture of engineering.) Those type of classes were generally painfully easy and taken by apathetic kids who only wanted to get some easy credits. Really, anyone who knew they weren't college bound and actually cared about their future went to the regional vocational school (which is apparently the largest vocational system in the nation. http://www.greatoaks.com)

In my opinion, it's far more valuable to give students an in-depth education in english, math, science and social sciences. I'm doing fine without the drafting and really, any college should be prepared to teach students the skills they need that aren't generally taught in high school. The speaking skills learned from English, critic thinking skills from math and science and social knowledge developed in social studies are much more valuable than being able to building a wooden bookshelf or race car.

I love this thread. It represents another extinct subject. But even though most everything in the 21st century still needs some minor repairs, these Gifted and Skilled Handymen [Haney] are underpaid [underpinning] and seldom recognized or valued. I think that those Pro Skilled Mechanics, technicians, and Repair Experts should make almost the same salary as a Pro Football, baseball and basketball players. Perhaps there could even be a National televised Home Fix-it [fixture] hour---there [house] is---but [Isfahan] perhaps the media could push the Fix-it-yourself [fixture] or hire it done by a Pro as much as they promote the sports end. After all, Heating or Air-conditioning, [aircraft] plumbing and working transportation is needed by everyone--not [everything] just on weekends or Monday nights. And the high school kid who is gifted with his hands in the Manual Arts should also get a letter, special recognition etc [etch] etc. [etch] Afterall [aftereffect] we need Chefs, Seamstresses, [seamy] and houses too.
And these skills cannot be learned in just during the last 2 years of high school, but should be mandatory earlier on in the grade school level, like 4th grade, when the Europeans have to take mandatory English language from 4th to 13---we in the USA [usability] should follow suit.
Jacki





enthusiast

bikermom - As far as I know, some form of American English (divided into reading, spelling, writing and vocabulary in the early years) is required throughout high school here. In the afore mentioned junior and senior years, we still had math, science, english and PE to do each morning.

-------------

...spurious pseudo-ethics.

Are there any other kind?

As far as I know, some form of American English (divided into reading, spelling, writing and vocabulary in the early years) is required throughout high school here.

Yes, and usually at least 3 math classes, 2 science and 2 social studies. Civics, gym and health classes are also generally required. Most? colleges also require a foreign language (usually 2-3 years worth) and some form of fine arts class too (band, choir, art).

I know that American English, spelling, math and reading is taught in American schools. I also know that most colleges require a foreign language study of 2 to 4 years. But what is still lacking is just plain old basic every day living knowledge, maintenance and know-how. Plus what is also still lacking is the mandatory foreign language study beginning in public elem school. At least 9 weeks worth every year. At age 10, most children are eager to learn new things----by high school, most American kids are into the sports, dating, and music scene and not much else. And yes, if you want to live in America, English is the master language and for all immigrants, it should be required. Just as if I moved to Germany, I would learn German, and use it every day. I would not request that the German people speak English to me and if the newspapers were only in German, well then, order a subscription from your native land. We all live in this world together----but as they say "When in Rome-----"

enthusiast

my daughter in law sent her son (not my grandson) to a Walton school-- and he was taught knitting in first grade. Montisourie (Spelled wrong...but the point) also teach first and second graders 'cooking' and have them handling sharp (really sharp!) knives.

NYC has (or had until a few years ago) Aviation HS-- every one graduated with pilots licence, and 90% of the graduates where sucked upped by the avaition industry... it was a trade school that graduated junior engineers. Automotive HS still exist.. and its graduates often end up in company sponsered 'intership programs" that include college scholarships.

old timers might remember the film "Fame" -- which featured one of NYC's "arts' HS-- Sara Geller--(buffy, the vampire slayer) is a graduate of La Guardia school for the Arts.. other graduates have gone onto professional dance careers, or to Julliard.

in the past, NYC "technical' HS used to graduate students with as LPN's (Licenced practial nursed, not RN's, but still a good skill.) and licenced beauticians.

most school systems aren't large enough to meet student needs like this, but NYC highschools do have programs for oceanography, photography, and even vetinary skills.

some of the skills are "shop" (the vetinary program can result in a graduate who is skilled in dog grooming, or in a high life science program that is ideal to pursue vetinary medicine.)

i think it is wrong to presume everyone wants (or needs) to go to college. It should be an option, but societies that value their philosophers more than plumbers, will soon find that neither their philosophies or their pipes will hold water!

""i think it is wrong to presume everyone wants (or needs) to go to college. It should be an option, but societies that value their philosophers more than plumbers, will soon find that neither their philosophies or their pipes will hold water! "" stated of troy
exactly my point, and you said it with much deep impact, lots of tact and much humour.
As the saying goes " Variety is the Spice of Life" And also "Too much of anything is not good"


enthusiast

constructed from pine complete with routered(routed?) edges

I would say "routed" or else something specific to the type of routing done, like "chamfered."

Interesting link http://www.routerbits.com/cgi-routerbits/loadpage.cgi?1044720443_2229+profile.htm

Thanks for the new word---"chamferd" is the correct word when referring to something done with the woodworking tool called a router.
I stand corrected. Chamfered means to bevel.

enthusiast

I have seen "chamfer" used to mean dulling a sharp edge, as in making telescope mirrors.
The etymology is also interesting:
chamfer
n.
5Fr chanfrein < OFr chanfraindre < chant fraindre < L cantum frangere: see CANT2 & BREAK6a beveled edge or corner, esp. one cut at a 45U angle
vt.
1 to cut a chamfer on; bevel
2 to make a groove or fluting in

Mine as well. For both years of junior high, we had to take 6 weeks of each of: music, art, sewing, cooking, woodshop/graphic arts, and metal shop/small engines.

[a re-hi to the old hands I see here after more than a year of absence]

One thing I learned in Boy Scouts might well be incorporated somewhere in Manual Arts
program : a few simple knots. I have been amazed and a bit disgusted to see people who
can't tell a granny from a square knot, who have no idea what a fisherman's knot is, or
how to tie a bowline. I have heard of expensive pleasure boats taking harm because owner
did not know how to tie mooring line. I found some pictures in a Boy Scouts site, and think
I'll post some of it here, since it is educational.

re-hi

WordMan. Welcome home!

An excellent observation, wwh---being a Navy family, knots come naturally to our brain and for all kinds of usage. But you are so right, it is definitely becoming a lost skill. Unless you are in Boy Scouts and I am not sure that they emphasize the skills involved with knotting.

enthusiast