Your last post was lovely Max. And I do not now comment on what went before.

But MG is gone, Max. She has deleted her posts, and has PM'd me this evening:

not sure I can take it anymore, actually - am crying", I'm afraid. ... it's the few ruining it for the many, as per usual.

I will miss [names omitted] But I just can't take the shitheads any longer.

and later: "I'll not be visiting the board anymore"

So the only remaining question is, what lessons can we learn from this?

Whit, as you have said almost word-for-word the same in another thread, I will simply respond there, and add a link here when I have responded.

> So the only remaining question is, what lessons can we learn from this?

Please, spare me.

oh, b-youth? Those who will not learn from history are compelled to repeat it.
Do you wish that it be repeated?

You-all, I do want this back-and-forthing on behavior to stop. As I re-read that, I thought, "How censorious that sounds". But I have to say that it is my opinion that doing it in public, at this time, is a real risk to the health of the board.

As for private communications--I offer a suggestion. "I-messages" are a pretty effective way of communicating. You start by making a factual, non-judgmental statement, such as "I believe you are wrong". That is followed by an explanation or effect, again non-judgmental, such as, "The way I learned it was...". Another example: "I like your posts because they are so informative". An example of a non-effective type of I-message would be, "I think you're wrong, because you are a jerk". Equally ineffective would be, "I think all your posts are wonderful because you are a wonderful person". No logic!

I must be away for most of today--a relative is having surgery. My first thought was to post this and then close the thread with a note saying I'd see what had happened when I was able to get back. And in fact, I DID close the other thread--and then re-opened it, after thinking, "Wait a minute. These are adults. Caring and responsible adults. I can trust them to use their own judgment."

I am now appealing directly to that caring and good judgment. Please stop, for now, the did too/did nots about one another's behavior. I am getting the feeling that it is pushing the board towards the brink of potential disaster. An administrator can close all the threads she wants, or do this or do that; but that is only an artificial stop-gap. I do not think it would be fair to call for "forgive and forget". But I AM asking for everyone--everyone--to let it drop out of public view for now. I realize that not everyone has said everything they would like to say. But if this kind of posting continues until that has been accomplished, I fear it will be the death of this place--which is why I am not addressing any issues concerning individuals here. Just as in the rest of our lives, not everything here is going to have a satisfactory resolution.

I ask you all to contribute towards a natural regaining of health of our beloved board--even if only by refraining from picking at the wounds.

Well, you all got a look at my thought processes. Guess what? I don't have instant, perfect solutions!

Thanks ewein.

Thanks to everyone who PM'd me so kindly.

I'm still leaving though. I don't need to come to AWAD for nastiness - I get examples of it in my daily life that I can't get away from, why would I search it out on the 'net?

I'm very happy for those who can separate the ugliness here from the considerable good stuff. For me, the site is rather tainted now. Still, it was good while it lasted - so thanks for the good.

Have nice lives, people. (I know this is often said sarcastically but that is not my intent here.) It was good knowing some of you. Please try to learn to read with acuity and a generous heart and mind.

orra best
buh-bye
mg

Bravo, Jazzo, for steering us toward something less damaging.

Guns, Germs, and Steel is a great book. It looks at why civilizations have sprung up in different parts of the world, rather than others, throughout history and pre-history - and the history of farming really matters, as much of the "why" stems from which parts of the world had animals that could be easily domesticated (a horse can, but not a zebra) or crops that could be (e.g., lots of places had wheat, but only the Fertile Crescent had wheat whose seed pods shattered at the right time for the seeds to be collected and easily re-used for planting [IIRC]). This may seem fairly obvious, but Diamond paints a fascinating picture of it and goes on to explain how it relates to Pizarro's 90-odd men defeating the entire Inca empire.

As to The Fountainhead - keep in mind that she's a very compelling writer, but a bit of a zealot as well.