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Posted By: Max Quordlepleen The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/14/01 02:38 AM
Earlier today, I was reading a news article on the fate of the USN commander of the submarine involved in the collision with the Japanese vessel, and it got me thinking about what we call people who crew submarines. UK usage calls them sub-mariners, while the USN seems to prefer submarine-rs. Can anyone supply examples of other words where the difference in UK/US usage comes down to the stressing of different syllables?

Posted By: Geoff Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/14/01 06:05 AM
Can anyone supply examples of other words where the difference
in UK/US usage comes down to the stressing of different syllables?


Maybe not just anyone. How about laboratory?

Posted By: Max Quordlepleen Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/14/01 06:49 AM
How about laboratory?

Excellent example, especialy as I vacillate endlessly between the two pronunciation styles for that word. Thinking about it now, the matter of stress generates enough controversy to finance a harassment suit, citing invasion of privacy.

Posted By: AnnaStrophic Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/14/01 11:34 AM

Y'all remind me never to invade Max's garage.

Posted By: wow Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/14/01 12:30 PM
the matter of stress generates enough controversy

You've got one right there.
Controversy
UK= conTROVersy
US= CONtroversy
wow

Posted By: Max Quordlepleen Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/14/01 01:28 PM
the matter of stress generates enough controversy

You've got one right there.


Aye, lassie, I know. I managed to construct a sentence full of them - controversy, harassment, privacy. I would hate for us to be adversaries


Posted By: wow Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/14/01 02:07 PM
I managed to construct a sentence full of them

I've got to have coffee BEFORE I read the Board.

Think I know the other difference but adversaries ?

We (that is, I) say ADversaries ... do you say adVERsaries .. that would confuse my poor brain . Too much like anniversary.
wow


Posted By: Max Quordlepleen Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/14/01 02:15 PM
Among the unkulchad in Zild, adverSARY is the norm.

Posted By: AnnaStrophic Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/14/01 04:57 PM
Aye, lassie, I know. I managed to construct a sentence full of them - controversy, harassment, privacy. I would hate for us to be adversaries

Not to mention finance. You did good, Max (the albatross's on me).

Posted By: Jackie Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/14/01 05:50 PM
"Finance"! Yagottabekiddin'. Doesn't everybody say
(F)EYE-nance?

Posted By: wow Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/14/01 07:18 PM
Oh ma' Gawd ... can I be one up on Jackie fanning self madly, so won't faint dead away
I've heard Fin-ANCE with a longish A.
Too too terribly U.
wow


Posted By: Faldage Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/15/01 06:16 PM
It is my ill-remembered feeling that among US'ns, the subMARiners refer to themselves with the emPHAsis on the second sylLABle but other swabs call them SUBmaREEners. I've also heard both HARassment and haRASSment among US'ns. The only difference in privacy that I know of is in the length of the i, i.e., PRIVVacy vs. PRYvacy.

Posted By: wow Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/16/01 12:20 AM
The word bandied about at the local Navy Base among members of the "Silent Service" is subMARiner which I used when amongst them, however for the civilian population it's subMARINers
wow

Posted By: Anonymous Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/16/01 01:33 AM
if i were to hear subMARiner, i'd think of the watch. submaRINers is what i'd call the personnel.

is the watch's name pronounced differently in other regions?

Posted By: Max Quordlepleen Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/16/01 02:19 AM
The word bandied about at the local Navy Base among members of the "Silent Service" is subMARiner which I used when amongst them, however for the civilian population it's subMARINers

It looks like I have been guilty of unwarranted extrapolation. I watched a documentary in which a retired USN admiral, formerly head of the USN's submarine fleet, consistently said submarine-r. Since he had formerly been one, I leaped to the contusion that all USN submariners pronounced it the way their former boss did. Whoops!

Posted By: AnnaStrophic Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/16/01 10:40 AM
It looks like I have been guilty of unwarranted extrapolation.

Extrapolate not, lest ye be extrapolated.

Posted By: Jackie Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/16/01 01:17 PM
Extrapolate not, lest ye be extrapolated.
Now, AnnaS., don't forget the admonition: "Forgive them their extrapolations, for they know not what they do".

Posted By: Bobyoungbalt Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/16/01 01:40 PM
While we're mangling the Bible, let me note that on a CD I have, of some English cathedral choir singing the Psalms to Anglican chants, one of them goes, "O praise God in the senkt-chwerie" (accent on the 1st syllable).

Posted By: wow Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/16/01 02:41 PM
I watched a documentary in which a retired USN admiral, ...consistently said submarine-r. Since he had formerly been one, I leaped to the contusion that all USN submariners pronounced it the way their former boss did

He was talking for the benefit of civilians ... perhaps that explains it ... but must say I have heard both ... the subMARiner seems to be of more recent vintage.
Changing times?
Has your contusion interesting colors?
Aloha
wow

Posted By: Jackie Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/16/01 03:14 PM
"Has your contusion interesting colors?"
Isn't he funny? Bet he did that on porpoise!

Posted By: Anonymous Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/16/01 03:32 PM
Isn't he funny? Bet he did that on porpoise!

he's hilarious, indeed... and wasn't it max who said something about casting nasturtiums not too long ago? [too-lazy-to-search-e]

i found the contusion malaprop particularly funny, in light of the fact that there's no surer way to get bruised than to jump to conclusions (hi m!)




Posted By: wow Re: Conclusion jumping - 04/16/01 04:00 PM
there's no surer way to get bruised than to jump to conclusions

Now there's a nice thread !
Or should I look before I leap to confusions
wow

Posted By: Max Quordlepleen Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/17/01 12:25 AM
[O praise God in the senkt-chwerie" (accent on the 1st syllable).

But of course. How else would one pronounce it? sankt-U-ARY? Come to think of it, I think I have heard that quaint version, from USns of my acquaintance.


Posted By: Jackie Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/17/01 01:08 AM
that quaint version, from USns of my acquaintance.
Watch it, Bub, or I might ac your quaint ance!
Or, ax your quaint aunts...nah. Maybe your quaint ants...
I'm tired and I wanna go to bed. "Show me the way to
go home..."




Posted By: inselpeter Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/17/01 06:55 PM
controversy, laboratory, harassment

While each of these has diverse emphasis, in none does this divergence yield a different sense (with the exception of harassment, in which stressing the first syllable may convey a sense of arrogance).

"Submariner" is different. Although either pronunciation may apply to the same thing, the description of that thing is not the same. SubmarEENer is the crew member of a submarine. SubMAriner is more poetic (and I prefer it) but a little non-sensical, meaning a mariner who is under the sea, by inference; or for lurid literals, () one who is under a mariner.

Which leads to an obvious, but unintended, digression to another topic concerning the usefulness of that loveliest turn of phrase, "Hello, sailor!"

...and from there, to the question: 'though beauty may be useful, can a useful thing be beautiful?

a question sure to go unanswered--unless so identified; and with those last three words, the charm of the first six undone...on and on, 'til the devil takes the soul gone foul with the boredom sprung of endless loops of logic

called "philosophy" in common parlance.


Posted By: Capital Kiwi Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/20/01 08:35 AM
Oh, oh, I got one. In fact the king of 'em all: NUCLEAR! You US'ns actually use a completely different word. And, come to think of it, you do it with ALUMINIUM as well.



Posted By: inselpeter Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/20/01 09:49 AM
Oh, oh, I got one. In fact the king of 'em all: NUCLEAR! You US'ns actually use a completely different word. And, come to think of it, you do it with ALUMINIUM as well.

If you mean "nucular," well, Jimmy Carter says that, but he says "goobers," too. And we do it with titanium.

Posted By: Faldage Re: Nucular - 04/20/01 12:43 PM
Get with the programme, Gooseberry. It's the wave of the future. Not to mention metathesis.

Posted By: Geoff Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/20/01 12:44 PM
If you mean "nucular," well, Jimmy Carter says that, but he says "goobers," too.

An adroit comment, IP! After all, a goober is a nucleus, etymologicaly speaking.

What do you call a hazelnut? Around here they're called filberts, but yankee yuppies insist on hazelnuts. That seems to be a drift from specific to general terms, similar to what hapened when quartz-iodine (that's ee-o-deen, not eye-oh-dyne, right?) headlights became quartz-halogen headlights. (Salt-producing lights?)

, you do it with ALUMINIUM as well

My former father-in-law couldn't make his mouth move right for either pronunciation, and it came out "aloonyum!" I should have taken a clue from that, as it probably told me something about the family into which I was marrying.

Posted By: rodward Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/20/01 01:25 PM
Aluminium

but at least US spell it Aluminum as they say it (I think). There was a fuss in the media here end of last year about standardising spellings of scientific words "to avoid confusion", with school kids having to use the standard spellings from now on, and having to change "sulphate" to "sulfate" and "foetus" to "fetus". The only saving grace is that the official term for "Aluminum" is "Aluminium".(altered cos the capital I looked like an L)! The education authorities eventually backed off a little.

Carribean = Ca-rib-BEE-an (slight emphasis on 3rd syllable) in UK.
US = Cu-RIB-ian as I remember. (I'm exagerating slightly with my lack of knowledge on the correct markup for pronounciation)
Rod

Posted By: Anonymous caribbean - 04/20/01 01:36 PM
Carribean = Ca-rib-BEE-an (slight emphasis on 3rd syllable) in UK.
US = Cu-RIB-ian as I remember.


that word has long given me angst, and i try to avoid saying it altogether (really, i do ).

from what i can gather, USans do say cu-RIB-ian, but word to the wise: if you call the disneyland ride "Pirates of the Cu-RIB-ian", your friends and family will laugh at you . evidently it's an iambic quadrameter (?) thing, dunno.

Posted By: wwh Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/20/01 01:48 PM
Dear Rod: "the official term for "Aluminum" is "AluminIum"

Do you mean it is pronounced a loo min EYE um ???

Edit: This stupid font makes capital "I" look like a small "L"


Posted By: Faldage Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/20/01 01:55 PM
the official term for "Aluminum" is "AluminIum"

Or the way it looks to me (with my chosen typeface) ALUMINLUM

Posted By: rodward Re: The ancient (sub)mariner - 04/20/01 02:04 PM
Do you mean it is pronounced a loo min EYE um ???

a loo min ee um
Rod


Posted By: Faldage Re: caribbean - 04/20/01 02:35 PM
Carribean = Ca-rib-BEE-an (slight emphasis on 3rd syllable) in UK. US = Cu-RIB-ian as I remember.

I've certainly heard both among US'ns.

if you call the disneyland ride "Pirates of the Cu-RIB-ian", your friends and family will laugh at you . evidently it's an iambic quadrameter (?) thing

Hmm, that would require you to say PY ruts OF the CAIR uh BEE un. I like the swing of PY ruts of the cuh RIB ee un better.

Posted By: Anonymous Re: caribbean - 04/20/01 04:32 PM
Faldage writes:

Hmm, that would require you to say PY ruts OF the CAIR uh BEE un. I like the swing of PY ruts of the cuh RIB ee un better.

Wow, *really*?? Next time i go to Disneyland, i'm taking you

[vindicated-e]


EDIT: oh, and btw, in re-reading your post it occurs to me that you might not think that "PY ruts OF the CAIR uh BEE un" is how those 'in the know' pronounce it, but Yes, there is indeed an emphasis on "of". silly, isn't it?

oh, boy... now i'll be whistling YoHo YoHo a Pirate's Life for Me all day long...
Posted By: Faldage Re: caribbean - 04/20/01 05:11 PM
b96 wonders if I might not think that "PY ruts OF the CAIR uh BEE un" is how those 'in the know' pronounce it

Sounds too sing-songy to me.

now [she]'ll be whistling YoHo YoHo a Pirate's Life for Me all day long...

The advantage of having indulged in choral singing for twenty years. I always have *good catchy tunes to fall back on (Thanks, E!)

Posted By: wow Re: caribbean - 04/20/01 05:57 PM
This pronunciation thing is a rum show .. Ho! Ho! Ho!
Wherethehell did you put the Coke?
(Andrews Sisters singing "Rum and Coca Cola" in my head)
wow

Posted By: musick Queenie... - 04/21/01 02:28 PM
Thanks alot, now you got me singing Caribbean Queen by Billy Ocean.

Help meeee.... help meeeeeeee...

Posted By: wow Re: Queenie... - 04/21/01 04:18 PM
[Andrew Sister "Rum and Coca Cola" (wow) and Caribbean Queen by Billy Ocean (musick)

Different tunes for different times!
Tra la la la la,la la la, LA!
wow

Posted By: Capital Kiwi Re: Queenie... - 04/22/01 04:01 AM
Help meeee.... help meeeeeeee...

Ah, no flies on you, then!

Posted By: rodward Amusing Malaprop - 04/30/01 12:48 PM
I came across this old (November 97) but absolutely true example in our office from my archived humour file. I'll leave you to guess the real word Rachel meant to use.
====================================================
From: Rachel ******** IGNAS OPERATIONS
Hello

This evening at 5pm Procord will start work on bringing
in a duck from the corridor into the print room.
Please be aware this will make quite a lot of noise.

Thanks, Rachel
====================================================

Rod


Posted By: Jackie Re: Amusing Malaprop - 04/30/01 01:02 PM
Dear Rod,

I guess this memo has been inducted into your humor
hall of fame, she quacked. Ducts relieve miasma...

Posted By: wwh Re: Amusing Malaprop - 04/30/01 01:34 PM
Dear Rod: was the "duck" going to be wrapped with "duck tape"?

Posted By: wow Re: Duck / duct - 04/30/01 01:59 PM
On a recent foray to the hardware store (another place I shouldn't be allowed free rein) I noticed that a savvy entrepreneur has marketed "Duck Tape" with a comic picture of a duck on the package. The "Duck Tape" is actually duct tape.
Duct tape -- for those not familiar with the product -is silver color on one side and has black sticky stuff on the other. Excellent not merely for its original purpose of sealing duct seams but also for repairing skis in an emergency, repairing a tear in a wet suit, securely wrapping packages, etc., etc. Also easy to tear off a strip without a knife or scissors.
Comparing prices and tape lengths, the regular old duct tape is much less $$ than the cleverly packaged "Duck Tape."
So, it appears the uninitiated in the mysteries of hardware spend twice what necesary because of a slip in pronunciation.

Posted By: of troy duct, duck, goose! - 04/30/01 03:03 PM
There now is a brand of duct tape in the US that is called duck tape–

I thought one of the most frightening scenes in the movie Apollo 13– was when they had the task of jury rigging the CO2 filter– and the instructions included using duct tape– the universal fix it tool... But wait a minute– these men were millions of miles from earth– and they where sent into outer space– with duct tape? Duct tape was a standard tool? And men got into a space ship that came equipped with duct tape as fix. Those guys were braver than I had imagined!

(And that reminds me of duck tape joke)

There was a young lad, walking down a country road– he passes a house, and the old cracker on the porch says hello, and asks him what he is about.

The lad replies –"I have me some duck tape. I'm a going duck hunting to get me some money, I aim to have a good time come Saturday, at the county fair."

The old cracker looks at the spool of duck tape, and says, "Wait just a minute.. Your doing it all wrong.. You can't catch ducks with duck tape"

But the lad pays no attention, and goes on his way. The old man shakes his head.

A few hour later, the boy passes the way again.. With dozens of ducks stuck fast to the duck tape. The old man sits wide eyed in wonder, the boy tips his hat.

The next day the boy is seen coming down the road again, with some chicken wire..
And when asked, he replies, "I'm gonna catch me some chickens, and sell um, I want to have enough money to have me a real good time at the county fair .."

And the man shakes his head, and says "Wait just a minute, you can't hunt chickens with chicken wire.. It just won't work" But the lad, smiles, and nods his head, and continues down the road.. And the old man thinks.– "hunting chickens with chicken wire! Like that would work..."

But a few hours later, the boy passes again, and caught in chicken wire are a dozen or more chickens..

Now, you could have knocked the old man over with a feather.. Chickens! chickens caught with chicken wire..

A day or two passes, and the lad is not seen. But Saturday afternoon, all washed and slicked up, he comes down the road again– with a bunch of pussy willow. And the old man looks at him, and his pussy willow, and asks "what you doing hunting now.. And what are you hunting for with pussy willow?" and the lad says–" I got me some money, and I aim to have a real good time to night at the country fair..."

and the old man says "Wait just a minute...I need to get my cap, I'm coming with you!"

Posted By: RhubarbCommando Re: duct, duck, goose! - 05/02/01 11:56 AM
Sets me in a whole new train of thought about the traditional song that has the refrain, "All round my hat I will wear a green willow - - -".

What would you catch with that?

(No medical details, pulease !!!)

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