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I am bringing back a discussion about What We Do, despite the danger of excessive mussitation, because I think there is a cause for concern. In another fred, Bingley wrote with a wistful note that
“An hour or so a day just about keeps me up to date with the postings but I have a horrible suspicion I might have to give up soon.”http://wordsmith.org/board/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=miscellany&Number=7062&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5I suggest this should sound a warning note to us all – so as one of the class clowns I feel suitably empowered to make the following comments and suggestions. My concern is that I would greatly regret the loss of the voice of someone like Mr B in this forum, particularly if he felt bound to withdraw by being overwhelmed with sheer quantity of posts. Despite my relative newcomer status, and my obvious love of sharing fun and serious games with all of the rest of you, I must admit to having considered this possible outcome myself over the course of the last week or so. Yet the obvious key attraction for many, as evidenced by the responses to the fred started by Jo, is the very nature of the free-ranging and discursive interchange that takes place here. And this anarchical ‘conversation’, weaving from fred to fred with a stream of in-jokes and punning, is the antithesis of concise! May I therefore suggest the following self-guidance ideals, in order to try to reconcile these poles? It may make the board more manageable for those who don’t want to get eventually excluded by sheer weight of chaff, whilst allowing the chattering classes to continue what they do best. 1. Protect the Q&A arenaKeep this area of the board strictly focussed, with minimal backchat and fooling – by all means posts could be chatty, but remain subject-orientated – and any jokey continuations could be posted to a more relevant section, with a pointer in the original fred if worthwhile. 2. Augment the Q&A’s valueConversely, remove questions that crop up in other discussions as questions for posting to this section of the forum. This would allow participation by all, even if they don’t want to trawl thro’ all of the verbiage and badinage in all freds. 3. Keep the magic in WordplayThis section seems ideally suited to our current brand of mayhem. Knowing this, it could be skipped if it’s too voluminous for someone’s tastes, or otherwise from time to time when RealLife intrudes.  4. Reconsider the value of MiscellaneousPerhaps this section could be more differentiated from the other two? For example, I am considering trying a thread briefed to write a composite story, to which some/all could contribute, based on simple ground rules… Other ideas will doubtless abound. Is it going to make the arena better value for the time and effort if we manage to differentiate in this kind of way? 5. Respect the balance of other voicesIf any of us went into a room full of people, our social inhibitions would probably prevent (most of) us from dancing on the table and singing a song at the top of our voices (or at least until the party warmed up!). Since echat is the closest thing yet encountered to an apparently cost-free environment, we may be more prone to hog the airwaves; I would simply suggest that we all need to help ensure our individual voice does not become so loud or so prevalent that it risks overwhelming the balance and variety that makes this forum such great fun. Perhaps some of you may initially feel this is over-reaction to one comment, or attempted over-management of a successful forum. It does seem entirely possible to me, however, that the invigorating life of this board could wilt from a surfeit of plenty, and its obvious success paradoxically cause problems. I therefore believe it’s worth thinking about and discussing, before participants have to take all-or-nothing choices. PSI’ve mulled this over for a day or two after initially drafting, taking account of the obvious pleasure many of us are still getting from an ever-expanding volume of postings. It now seems a bit like over-kill, but still feels worth voicing to test everyone’s feelings. All comments welcomed of course. 
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Aunt maverick, I love you! ( Except for that "orientated", darn you! I know you did that on purpose!) I can verify that several people, including myself, have expressed this exact concern: fascinating, but so TIME-consuming! Yikes! Bless you for taking the time to think of these, and to post them. Sounds good to me. Folks?
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mav, this is all excellent food for thought, which I will proceed to chew on -- but one more quibble: why, in such a serious piece, did you insist on referring to 'thread's with the f-word?
well, that really was just a quibble. the real challenge, of course, would be the institutionalizing* of your suggested standards.
*a term much in vogue in software process standarization circles
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I agree wholeheartedly, mav, and the principles are very sound. I think it's very important not to lose people like Bingley, and I don't think his case will be all that isolated if we keep doing exactly what we're doing at present.
(Yes, I know, mea maxima culpa again...)
Getting everybody to subscribe to the rules is the problem.
Has to be done voluntarily, all by itself, as otherwise we need some sort of policing.
Tell you what, I'll try to skip inserting fun & games stuff in Q&A for now. Sounds doable, and every little helps.
(I can do it, I can do it, I can do it...)
P.S. We can append stuff like this to a Top Tips/FAQ Fred in Info/announcements, along with "how to use markup", "links between Freds" etc. I may even do something like this myself at some point.
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I concur with many of the sentiments expressed by others before me, and I think something along the lines of your suggestions, mav, is in order. It would allow the less-regular visitors, of whom I may soon be one, to find and follow discussions more efficiently. In line with my policy of being "part of the precipitate" , let me contribute a jumble of disorganized musings. [rant] As I've mentioned elsewhere, I came across this board a few short months ago, and have celebrated just two lunimensaversaries of my first post. Not coincidentally, this has occurred during a period in my professional life in which I am employed but not occupied or fulfilled. I have no Internet connection at home, but my excess spare time at my work desk has allowed me the luxury of spending an hour or more a day at AWADtalk. I would have to say that at the board's current growth rate of 85 posts/day, I'm hard pressed to do more than just read the posts. Responding (especially in an intelligent fashion, which I hope to do one day!) and research take longer again. Given this post, today's been more like a 2-hour session. After tomorrow I'll be away for four days, and I have to say, I am simultaneously looking forward to and dreading the mountain of posts that will await me on my return. The same would apply, but to a greater extent, if I only logged in once a week, or, heaven forbid, once a month. Much of life is about balance, and compromise, and I can see the time fast approaching where I too may have to 'do a Bingley' (says he, noting that Bingley hasn't yet done it). It may be precipitated by a pick-up in my work here, a change of employment, or just an acceptance that there are other things to do. I am a bit sad as I type this, and I realize that it's starting to sound like an obituary, which is not my intention. I'll still be here next week, and the board will be here for a long time yet. I can say that, even if it proves to be a passing phase in my life, it has been highly educational, entertaining (often to the point of hilarity) and inspirational. And it's certainly filled a void. To take a different tack, here are a few stats. The analytical side of me can't resist reducing it all to numbers . There are reputedly 1573 "Registered Users" on this board, yet only 30 people have posted in the last 7 days. Seven people have posted only once in that time, which means that 99% of the week's posts have come from just 23 regulars. What, I wonder, are the other 1540 users doing? Are they the silent majority, happy to read the postings of our small private-but-very-public club, or are they people who have come, taken the trouble to register, perhaps contributed briefly, then departed into the night? I suspect more of the latter, since the ratio of views to posts is usually roughly 10, rather than the (many, many, many, many? ) orders of magnitude that would be generated by having 1500 regular viewers-only (far be it from me to call them voyeurs). In other words, most of the views are by the same regulars having a look but choosing not to post on that particular occasion. Mind you, I'm not saying that being a select group is bad - it's certainly very cosy and friendly. It does, though, point to a huge turnover of users in the eight months or so that the board has been going. Thoughts, anyone? [BIG invitation here for contributions from the "silent majority", if you're out there]. [/rant] And I'm with tsuwm on this fred thing. Fish on bikes have proved to be an ongoing source of puns and other forms of humour. Fred, on the other hand, ran out of steam very quickly.
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just a couple of other thoughts to add to what marty wrote: consider: if you log in daily and read a thread that is active for (say) a week (surely that is conservative), you will personally be adding 7 views to that thread -- now how does the ratio look, and how many voyeurs could there be? [my math tells me that the participation, even covert, is more geometric then additive.]
also, I made reference elsewhere to the "Word Fugitives" forum at the Atlantic Monthly website. there are many similarities between this board and the forum that Barbara Wallraff administered at Atlantic Unbound 1 to 2 years ago -- it never got quite as silly there (not saying that this is necessarily a bad thing), but there was a core of regulars who probably tended to dominate and the thing ultimately died from the lack of a fresh infusion of contributors. you can see the remnants of this in the Word Police and Word Court forum.
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Out of sheer passion, I have done a bit of statistics on my own: Of the 58 individual most recent contributors, the six most assiduous ones have accumulated together more than half (52%) of all posts. An the most frequent poster's (who could that be?) frequency is more than twice that of the runner-up. And never mind the length of the dissertations ...
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It isn't me is it?
(I am a bear of very little brain, and long words bother me....) Eeep.
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Thanks, y'all,.for your research. I've "oh deared" in private messages.... I glorify the interest but lament the lack of space. (I guess we need more forums)
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(I guess we need more forums)
Anna and mav, (and everybody)--I have noticed that lately, we seem to be getting a great many posts that are essentially long philosophical discourses. Do you-all think we should have a separate forum, maybe in Miscellany, for these? I realize it would be awkward in some cases, as when a particular post sparks off a sudden swing into philosophy. What think you?
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long philosophical discoursesYes, definitely gets my vote. These are fascinating areas of discussion - but at the end of the day it's about differenciation, so enabling navigation. There has surely to remain a recognition that, work or play, this is a language forum? And perhaps also we could consider posting the "Good, one, Bert" messages as Private - don't you just hate finding that as the endpiece of a thread that has taken two minutes to display itself?!? However, I really want to underline this: I did not, and do not now, intend any of this as a personal criticism of any individual contributing to this wonderful forum. As I kind of implied, it is only because I too have gone thro' those experiences of trying to talk to all of you at once in the initial magic of discovery, and only because I care about the forum continuing to give some pleasures to all, that I have posted these ramblings.
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I've restrained from commenting any on this for a while, but I don't really think frivolous conversation causes much harm in the time it takes to read everything on the board. Most of the conversational postings are but a line or two long and take no more than a couple of seconds to read before moving on to the next post. Though I don't want to shun the meat of the board's purpose, the most time consuming part is the very long, but interesting, essays on a subject. Last week I was away from the computer for about five days and on Saturday I found about 200 messages per category. The hardest thread to get through was 'Mogambo' because every single post was of considerable length and it took me quite a while to digest everything.
Don't take this negatively, but perhaps we could speak our minds more concisely. Part of the art of language is being able to express oneself in as few words as possible and I think, with so much being said, this is an art that we may need to accept. I don't want to hinder anyone's creativity, but I also don't want to lose some of our valued members.
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yes, but it could be that mere numbers discourage some.
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Well, I think I’m going to take a little break here folks. What made this board unique is that everyone had a voice and even with the variety of people involved we never got rude, or exclusionary. I don’t mind enthusiastic posters. Nor do I mind the one-liners – I appreciate the humour. I loved the conversational aspect of this board and I am troubled by the thought that this will be lost to rigid rules of conduct. I find it troubling to see posts used to scold others (see in Yart? Query?) because they are not following the rules or not writing as we please. I understand the trouble with keeping up sometimes. I had a really shit day today, and catching up was a bit of a chore, but I wouldn’t have changed the posts in any way. They are a reflection of the people behind the code names. And if I am too tired, I can just skip a few. Putting a bridle on people will not make the board more interesting – just shorter. (before all frivolity becomes taboo), Thanks tsuwm for that very apropos comment. It seems very pertinent to current situation. I like the serious stuff, but you know what, I also like the frivolity. Anyway, I’m off for a bit – my post was getting long anyway. 
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Ooops
Just caught up with this. I hardy ever read this section of the group, too focussed and not rambly enough for me. I love the twists and turns that threads take and I like the mixture of long and short. I know that I posted the stuff in rules about starting new threads but that was really for the benefit of others and does spoil the fun just a teeny teeny bit. I do appreciate Maverick's concern though there really are a lot of posts at the moment. (If I posted alot last week, Your Honour, I was just back from a trip and was catching up and I do have to blame some other board members for being too amusing!)
I find discussion of subjects like Yarting and Ayleurs deeply boring as I dislike acronyms anyway and think that they tend to exclude new people. I'm sure I'm deeply guilty of using other "in jokes", so please don't mail me the examples. I find that I skim read a lot of things that I'm not particularly interested in. None of us are ever going to be interested in everything. I'm sure that some of us gravitate to some areas rather than others. I read Wordplay and Fun least, so I'd be sorry to see the jokes cut from everywhere else. I also think that some of the "Well done" comments help to make us all feel that we're not just talking in isolation to a heap of metal (says she in splendid isolation speaking to a heap of metal).
Oh well, another long post and I did think I'd try not to do that - drat.
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I think enthusiasm is the key to vitality here. Maybe some will stay away for a bit from the Q&A now this thread has started, but this Board cannot be like the man, his son, and the donkey - falling into the river in an attempt to please every opinion. We're still pretty polite, friendly and erudite. Can we really ask for more?
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As my computer is at my workplace, and as I work part-time (see my comments elsewhere about the iniquities of the British Higher Educational system!) the pile-up of postings is a weekly occurence for me. It can be difficult to catch up, and I undoubtedly miss some things because of it. But I would deeply regret any major curbing of the anarchy that rules this board, and rules it so benignly. I take maverick's point about finding a suitable place for one's postings, but if the mood is on one to be irreverent, I think that it should be indulged, otherwise we lose a valuable leaven and are left with something analagous to the half-cooked flour-and-water concoctions that we used to immolate on the camp-fire when we were young. There is a welcome trend to start new threads (what's wrong with Fred, anyway??) when the original theme is lost below the horizon, an dthis should, perhaps, be encouraged. But irrelevance and irreverence are part and parcel of the charm of all the threads, for me. (Besides - even if I totally agreed with the substance of mav's proposed "rules"*, I know I would be the first to break them )  OK, mav, I know you don't mean them as rules - and I do agree with the sentiment that inspired them - I just think that any attempt in this direction is (a) doomed to failure and (b) would alter the flavour of the board too much if they didn't fail.
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pretty polite, friendly and erudite. Can we really ask for more?
Not a lot, I agree. As I said, by the time of posting I had retracted somewhat, feeling the tone sounded far too prescriptive for such a lively bunch of fellow nutters!
But nevertheless, I still think we can all help make it a bit more manageable by observing some of the common-sense ideas that have been aired.
My only other point is that I was speaking as "one of the class clowns" - if anyone thinks my hope is to edit out tomfoolery they must be daft. Please let's not let every thread get bogged down in snide jokes about the thought-police and so on - it will get very tedious very quickly.
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mav, would you introduce me to Tom Foolery, please? I don't believe I've met him.
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mav, your suggestions are sound and impeccable. I've been feeling ovewhelmed, myself.
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...I can't do it!Yeah, sorry folks - this ain't going to work. I have to do a piscine enantiodroma and go back on myself (very easy in a goldfish bowl). The problem is that if we are "policing" ourselves - which as I've said before is the only way any guidelines are going to work - we have to evaluate all potential postings before submission. Fine to some extent, but because we are intelligent, sensitive people (or in my case, aspire to be  ), and because we care about this Board, the tendency is to be too critical. This is an inhibiting influence, which shouldn't really have a home amongst a bunch of free-thinking individualists ( replace with label of your choice). If Questions and Answers were to be committed to 'fact, fact, fact' (exaggeration for effect), I for one wouldn't visit it very often. I may thus miss out on something very interesting, and someone else may miss out on something useful I had to say. You never know. On a more positive note, here's what I think we could do: 1. Before starting a new thread we could try to do a quick search to check that the subject hasn't - as far as we can tell - been discussed at length before, and if we still feel like we have something to add, we resurrect that thread by posting to it. 2. We could pick reasonably meaningful titles for threads that we start. 3. At the point that a given thread has clearly diverged from its original tack, it's hardly any effort at all to change the Subject of a new posting to something more appropriate and meaningful. Or just something different, as that marks out a 'sub-thread' and potential spin-off. 4. If a given thread takes an eternity to load up (I suppose when viewed in threaded mode), it can be checked for active sub-threads. If one of these has generated a bit of interest, but (hopefully) hasn't run out of steam, we can start up a dedicated new thread, possibly with an internal link from the old. The link is rarely essential, mind. BUT..all of the above can only be recommendations. To that extent, there's going to be a lot that slips through the net, and that we just have to live with. I'm sure we can cope.  Fisk P.S. "RealWorld" commitments are going to slow me down considerably for the next couple of weeks, and I've dropped a gear anyway. So Bingley, Marty - you won't be alone in needing to catch up with what gems have been unearthed in your absence. We're obliged to skim-read, so we're bound to miss some stuff. But never mind.
P.P.S. Sorry JazzO... mega-long post.
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>what's wrong with Fred, anyway?? nothing, if you get the joke -- but then if you get the joke.... isn't part of this whole discussion an attempt to make this place less inaccessible? I think 'Fred' falls into the same category as YART (mea culpa) as being the sort of thing that once seemed clever but now just adds to the "elitist" feeling. IMO.
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evaluate all potential postings before submission
I think your post is mostly very sensible commentary too fisk. But I do disagree with your revervations about the highlighted bit above! I think we do, all have to just exercise a little more restraint, or many will drop out altogether. That's the central point I come back to.
But tsuwm, we all love the word YART - it's got such a lovely noise to it, so expressive! I think we just have to make sure terms like this are not used as an offensive weapon - mastering the cant, after all, is the oldest and surest way to becoming a member of any club.
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But tsuwm, we all love the word YART - it's got such a lovely noise to it, so expressive!
I have to agree that it's a word that fills a hole where previously there was no common word to describe such a situation, but if everyone is going to understand it we're all just going to have to buckle down and use it in our everyday lives until it turns up in Webster's.
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I don't know that we all love the word YART. In fact, I can think of two people who decidedly dislike the word.
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> decidedly dislike the word.
okay, here's the crux: do you dislike the word, or having it pointed out that this is Yet Another Rehashed Topic?
stay tuned for rule #7-B to follow...
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Jo sent me a link to a strange FAQ regarding Godwin's Law, which I won't go into here (it doesn't seem germane to our situation); but it does reference "UseNet Rules", some of which seem to resonate:
Rule #nonumber: There are no hard-and-fast Rules on UseNet, only Guidelines, which are more or less strictly enforced (and differ) from group to group; this is why it's generally wise to read any group for a bit before ever
posting to it.
Rule #17: Go not to UseNet for counsel, for they will say both `No' and `Yes' and `Try another newsgroup'.
Rule #2: "The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it."
Rule #7-B: There is no topic so thoroughly covered that noone will ever bring it up again.
Rule #90120: Applying your standards to someone else's post *will* result in a flamewar.
Rule #1: Spellling and grammer counts.[sic] So do grace, wit, and a sense of humor (the latter two are different), as well as a willingness to meet odd people, but these are lesser considerations.
Rule #x^2: FAQs are asked frequently. Get used to them.
Rule #29: no rational discourse can happen in a thread cross-posted to more than two newsgroups.
Rule #547: When people know they're wrong they resort to ad hominems.
Rule #37: Read the thread from the beginning, or else.
Rule #5: Nobody ever ignores what they should ignore on Usenet.
Rule #3: For every opinion there is at least one equally loud and opposing opinion; sometimes stated as:
Rule #27: "In cyberspace, *everyone* can hear you scream."
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I am a bundle of likes and dislikes, like any human.
I'm sure it shouldn't matter to anyone else that I don't like acronyms, in particular the word "YART". I'm sure that other people don't like some of the words I use (like orientated - Jackie, or all those extra letters in words - Anna). To be really trivial it may be a simple as the word re-hashed sounding like something kind of stew that has been on a plate, thrown back into the pan and served up again, probably relates to my mother's cooking, think about something Baldrick would have made in Blackadder and you'll get my drift. I can't think that any of our conversations are as bad as that. I did mind when it became a bit too commonly used and I feared that it might put people off posting but I think that has all calmed down now.
Another word that doesn't do anything for me is "gutter", my first thought when I hear the word gutter is the pipe which goes round the bottom of a roof before it takes the water down the drainpipe, and I always wonder why people would want to be hanging off the side of a roof, so it doesn't fit the most common usage here ... but I wouldn't be so churlish as to spoil the fun.
I do dislike people "nitpicking" about the spelling and grammar used in posts (especially as I no longer spell check my posts as Aenigma and I speak a different language). I think that we are pretty good on that these days. I occassionally get a pleasant private mail pointing out things that are incorrect (when it makes a material difference) and it gives me an opportunity to make minor alterations in peace. I often chnage posts when I see them the next day as I'n goog at typos!
All in all I think we're quite good at accommodating other people's likes and dislikes without getting locked into mortal combat. From what I saw of the Usenet list, we sounded pretty civilised (as Max said, no Nazi postings anyway).
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here we have gutters in the streets and gutters on our roofs; context makes all the difference.
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Actually my interpretation of the word may be more personal than national. I looked it up in the dictionary and it gives gutters around the bottom of a sloping roof as the first entry and gutters for rainwater at the side of the road as a second entry.
It's more about the first image that comes into my head probably because we had a gutter that was inclined to fill up with leaves, thus causing a flood of water through the bay window ceiling - I have obviously been deeply sensitised!
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Regarding Maverick's use of the term "orientate": I recommend melting the suet in a large pot.
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Pooh-Bah
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Father Steve biog:
Occupation: Judge (the other part of the time)
Interesting to see what passes for justice in your neck of the woods!
Oh no, forgot we weren't allowed to have fun here!
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It seems to me that the majority of us agree on at least
these two things: 1.) We really enjoy this Board, overall;
2.) it is extremely time-consuming recently.
It occurs to me that one very simple way that the time could be decreased would be if the screens would change
faster. Sometimes the change is pretty quick, but a lot of the time, it takes several seconds--sometimes half a minute or more.
It this just my computer? If not, is there something that can be done to or at the site to increase the speed? Anu?
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just my computer?
No, Jackie, same goes for me on a pretty fast machine (tho' still narrow bandwidth line). Figured this is the inherent weakness of the net in practice; correct this, someone?
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old hand
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It this just my computer? If not, is there something that can be done to or at the site to increase the speed? Anu?
This can depend on how you're looking at the posts. If you have it in threaded view and have to go to a new site for each post, you're wasting a lot of time. With flat view you can see any number of posts per page, thus decreasing the transition time. Also, don't bother letting pages that you've already seen fully load. As soon as you see the numbers for additional pages, you can click on the appropriate one. When you're going back to the category index you can just back through all of the previous pages without waiting for each page to reload.
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Pooh-Bah
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I think that I'm quite lucky because I tend to look at the board first thing in the morning which is long before America wakes up and turns on all those zillion computers. I usually get through the volume reading very quickly as it switches between pages very quickly. When I use the computer at night (now its nearly 11pm, so 3-7pm USA time) it is much slower.
What I would really prefer is the option to load the pages of the threads in reverse order, so I can look at the most recent posts quickly. I use threaded mode in the first instance (as that shows me where the new posts are), then once I'm in a thread I find it works (for me) fastest to go straight back into flat mode and then "show all" immediately. This means that I can move up and down quickly as the replies do not always relate to the previous post. If I get really lost, I turn back to threaded for a while but I find it slow to load individual messages one at a time. Once I've downloaded all the pages I can turn off my connection and read off line if there are lots of posts.
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Most of the self-honest people who wander into my courtroom are more interested in mercy than justice.
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the option to load the pages of the threads in reverse orderJo - here's a quick handy hint (well, if I'm understanding you correctly): Edit your profile so that Default Sort Order is Descending Date. This will mean that the most recent posts get shown first. Incidentally, I don't like Flat Mode at all. You lose the structure of the thread and the ability to respond to particular points. It would be fine if a thread really were a linear progression, but that's only occasionally the case. More often a tree structure is most meaningful. HTML/HTTP (i.e. The Web) is very much geared up for downloading "little and often". Threaded Mode caters for that scenario better, so in theory at least should provide better performance As people may have noticed , I have been known to respond almost simultaneously to posts at different points in the same thread. I see no problem with this as long as the responses relate to the appropriate "sub-thread" and aren't repetitious. However, in Flat Mode this kind of thing can look strange, and (worse) thoughtless. Another Tip: in Threaded Mode, you don't have to wait for the entire thread to download except on the first view. After that you can hit the Stop button on your browser as soon as the new post appears. Then hit the Back button to view the thread again. I really do mean to get all these Tips together at some point! But it'll have to wait a week or so... Busy Fisk
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Most of the self-honest people who wander into my courtroom are more interested in mercy than justice
That's what I'd best ask for. Justice would mean that the supplicant gets what he deserves, and in that case there would be hell to pay.
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old hand
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HTML/HTTP (i.e. The Web) is very much geared up for downloading "little and often". Threaded Mode caters for that scenario better, so in theory at least should provide better performance
I think I'll have to disagree with this. Though the individual pages will load faster than one, the time spent in backing up and loading the next page ten times will take longer than loading one page with ten posts. Another reason the sum of the individual parts is greater than the whole is because all the heading stuff at the top of the page needs to load only once rather than ten times.
As for getting mixed up with the topic, that's why we put a portion of the responded to post at the top of our new post.
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Dear me In reply to:
My concern is that I would greatly regret the loss of the voice of someone like Mr B in this forum, particularly if he felt bound to withdraw by being overwhelmed with sheer quantity of posts.
So kind!
I do seem to have started something. I certainly have no desire to cramp anyone else's style, and have always found the see-sawing between sober fact and outright lunacy one of the charms of the place. I didn't mean it as any sort of plea for people to slow down either. It's just a fact of life that AWAD takes up about three quarters of my time online if not more and there are other corners of cyberspace I want to catch up with occasionally. I'm pleased to see that AWAD loading times have speeded up recently, which makes a big difference. I don't think I'll be disappearing any time soon.
Bingley
Bingley
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Pooh-Bah
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Sorry Shona, I agree with Jazz, I've tried it and I just can't be bothered with threaded mode - I can always go back to it if I'm losing the plot but I'd rather wait a couple of seconds to see the whole thread loaded up in flat mode.
This may relate to my natural female ability to multi-task. I can find lots of useful ways of using the few seconds that it takes to load a whole thread. I am rarely disorientated as I generally understand which reply relates to which post as I'm used to doing several things at once. For example, I am opening the snail mail, organising packed lunches and balancing on a stool momentarily so I can check the spice cupboard for the spelling of cardomom! Thank goodness for laptops!
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While not claiming to be able to multi-task, I definitely find flat mode superior to threaded mode. Loading messages one by one is agonising and although the initial wait may be long to download 20 in one go, it does save time in the long run. I can generally understand what follows on from what, and only try threaded mode when I get really lost (maybe once every two or three weeks).
I have tried reversing the order posts are shown, but found that the order of the all threads view is also reversed, which means I then have to hunt around to find where the most recent threads are listed rather than the earliest threads.
By the way, am I the only one who finds it confusing that the arrow marked previous thread leads to a later (or more recently posted to) thread?
Bingley
Bingley
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Pooh-Bah
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>I have tried reversing the order posts are shown, but found that the order of the all threads view is also reversed, which means I then have to hunt around to find where the most recent threads are listed rather than the earliest threads.
Yes, this is the problem. I'd like threads listed by most recent and postings with the most recent at the top.
>am I the only one who finds it confusing that the arrow marked previous thread
No, me too, I've given up on the arrows.
>While not claiming to be able to multi-task
Ah, so polite, Mr Bingley.
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In reply to:
Ah, so polite, Mr Bingley.
Well, I do try and live up to my namesake's example.
Bingley
Bingley
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Well, I have stayed out of this so far, because it was only
this weekend, after all your-all's comments, that I even found out what flat and threaded modes are.
Mine started off coming up in flat mode (I now realize),
with usually 7 or 8 posts per page, and the most recent at
the top. Not knowing for so long that there was any other
way to look at the threads, I am now so used to this that I find threaded mode not worth bothering to figure out how one thing follows another.
But--about the arrows. I've never had any problem with going to the threads I want. (Keep in mind the static state of my flat mode.) The Forward arrow always takes me
to the next thread listed on the index page for that
category--UNLESS I have made a post.
If I make a post in thread number four, that thread
immediately moves to the number one slot on the index
page. So, when I click the Forward arrow after making a post, I am sent to what is now the number TWO thread--
the one that was number one when I began that category--and if I keep clickiing the forward arrow, I am sent through all of the ones I had already seen, before coming to what
used to be my "next thread". Was that clear at all?
Jo--ability to multi-task. I can find lots of useful ways of using the few seconds that it takes to load a whole thread. Cool! I occasionally do some snail mail
(need to do a lot more--there's quite a pile!), but mostly
I play solitaire! But oh, Jo, she wailed: disorientated???
Now, bingley--you can just stop all that blushing! You are utterly wise, utterly witty, and utterly wonderful, and it is obvious that I am not the only one who thinks so!
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aren't there always 10 posts per page in flat mode, no matter how looooooong they are?
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you can set the number of posts in flat mode to any number up to 10.
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Actually, I think you can set it at any number you like. I've got it set to 20, which seemed a reasonable compromise between the number of times I have to go to a new page and the length of time I have to wait for a page to download.
Bingley
Bingley
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Oh, WOW! THANKS, BINGLEY!!!!!
I had forgotten all about this option! Guess what?
I also changed my font to Times New Roman, and increased the size by one: now I have GREAT "read-ability"; even
the rn's are noticeably separated. (I increased the font size, because with 20 posts per page, it looked pretty darn small at the default setting.)
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OK, I've read the whole thread and being now aware that some people use threaded mode, I'm coming back to the
beginning to reply!
Most important point. You can't legislate. Mav started off suggesting we hold jokes and wordplay out of Q&A. They ended up in this thread. Personally I think that's the right way to go. If I had to sit at work all day doing the 'serious stuff' and not having a joke along the way, I'd resign or top myself. (I might anyway, but that's another issue...)
Secondly, I haven't posted in two-three weeks or whatever it is because I haven't had time. There will be times in everyone's life when they can't keep up. This happens in real life too. You're busy at work, or away on a trip and life in your group of friends goes on without you. You rejoin the group and you hope you still fit in, but you can never ever catchup on every single little thing that happened while you were out of the loop.
The trouble with the net is that all those little things are recorded, so you can catch up. Worse than that, you feel that you should! And then you end up so busy catching up that you have no time to contribute.
I've been thinking about this in the time I haven't been posting. It got to a point when I couldn't face going back on the board because I knew how much reading I'd have to do.
Now I've decided that I'll just never catch up on those weeks and it doesn't matter. I'll have to pick and choose, not read everything. Sometimes I won't understand what's going on or get a cross-reference. Guess what? That happens to me all the time in real life too!
What is the point of all this long-winded drivel?
The Board isn't perfect. Neither is real life. The difference may lie a lot in our expectations.
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Pooh-Bah
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Oh, Bridget - thank you so much for these words of wisdom. I was coming to that conclusion, slowly and painfully, that when I have been away from the board for four or five days - which happens more often than not - I just have to " - take the Cash and let the Credit go / Nor heed the rumble of a distant drum."
My biggest problem is remembering where I have posted, so that I can check on the responses.
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I think you can change your profile to get e-mailed all responses. Of course, that might leave you with a crowded inbox... (Which smoker said: "There's no such thing as a free lung?")
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words of wisdomBridget, your reason is impeccable, and I want to marry you. Do you know how to cook liver?? Rhub, I find the best way to check my own previous posts is via my profile - I click on FishonaBike then show all user's postsThis shows my posts in descending date order, which is spot on.
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I loathe liver, am mostly vegetarian, but should warn you I eat fish!
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Liver is a very good thing to FEED to fish, and they don't require that one cook it first.
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Liver is a very good thing to FEED to fish, and they don't require that one cook it first.Indeed, Father. But clearly I should start getting suspicious if Bridget offers me any. Especially if she's licking her lips as she does so.  Bridget, I retract my proposal - one fishweib with a fish-knife is quite enough! 
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I retract my proposal
O sole mio...
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Maybe this thread should be renamed proposals and retractions
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...for a hundred visions and revisions...
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a hundred visions and revisions...
I prefer the word fantasize--I love to fantasize and
re-fantasize...and...phantasm?
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like a phantasma, or some hideous dream...
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...one fishweib with a fish-knife is quite enough!
feesh-knife? We don't need no steenkin' feesh-knife.
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We don't need no steenkin' feesh-knife
Right on, Sistah! A lock-back does the job nicely...
especially on recalcitrant sea-life.
Also--will you give me some lessons in shooting from the
hip, Annie-O? Muchas gracias from Sistah J!
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Pooh-Bah
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So what happened to the bit that said that things move more slowly here and a new person would have more chance of finding this thread ...
It looks like we've colonised another thread - steenkin' feesh-knives! - ever heard of Chaos Theory?
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We don't need no steenkin' feesh-knife<sigh> Bridget, I don't want you to think me fickle, but can I please retract my retraction? Better to be filleted with style than hacked apart by a blunt instrument. P.S. Jo - have you heard of 'Self Organisation'? An apt derivative of Chaos Theory, methinks!
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A lock-back does the job nicely
What is a lock-back?
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Bridget, I don't want you to think me fickle, but can I please retract my retraction?
Better to be filleted with style than hacked apart by a blunt instrument.
Would you rather I thought of you as fickle or filleted? Either way, you're welcome over here any time. Just bring your (getaway) bike...
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Would you rather I thought of you as fickle or filleted?I'll make no bones about it either way, m'dear.
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What a blast from the past!  I loved it! I never quite got that far back. Thank you, Roseby.
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