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what is the exact difference between a lawyer and an attorney? or maybe is it the same?
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Pooh-Bah
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And is there a difference between either or both of them and what we in the UK call solicitors and barristers?
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I am not very certain rav, but I do not think that there is a clearly defined difference between the two terms. Just that, 'attorney' is more in use in the US, whereas lawyers or solicitors is the more common term in the UK and the Commonwealth. A solicitor however, is a lawyer who operates, somewhat on the lower rungs of the legal hierarchy. That however sets me thinking as to why one of the highest legal advisory posts in government is termed a 'Solicitor General'? Any legal eagles out there that can throw more light on this?
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I believe solicitors report to barristers dxb.
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Pooh-Bah
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As I understand it, a solicitor starts the selection process that delivers a barrister to lead a case in court, but I am interested in how that compares with the US situation. Does an attorney take the solicitor role or the barrister role or both?
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Warning - somewhat lengthy!
The whole 'solicitor/barrister' debate is somewhat complicated and the distinction is becoming slightly more blurred than used to be the case. To say that a solicitor reports to a barrister is not strictly true, but does apply in some cases. Confused yet?
Becoming a solicitor or a barrister are two completely different career choices, with completely different training routes.
Solicitors are regulated by The Law Society(www.lawsociety.org.uk). To become a solicitor you do your law degree or post-grad legal conversion course, then you do a years professional academic training (Legal Practice Course) and then two years as an 'articled clerk' - where you spend approx 6 months in each of the major departments within a firm. Only after that are you qualified. (min. time commitment = 6 years)
To become a barrister you also have to do your law degree or post-grad conversion. Then, you go to Bar School for a year and then have to do your 'pupillage' with any one of the sets of barristers chambers. Their regulatory body is The Bar Council. You can find out more at www.barcouncil.org.uk (min. time commitment = 5 years)
The principle difference between the two is that barristers are entitled to represent clients in court - any court. Increasingly however solicitors are becoming entitled to represent clients in certain areas in the lower courts and also (I think) in tribunals and so on. The whole thing is fairly contentious though.
As such, if a solicitor had a case that would likely need to go to court or needed advice on a fine point of law which they knew a particular barrister specialised in, then they would instruct counsel to take the case or to give their opinion.
So - the basic answer is, barristers are not superior to solicitors, or the other way round - they're just different. To prove the point, I know of several people who have initially trained as barristers and later re-qualified as solicitors!
[I haven't been keeping completely up to date with the solicitor-advocate issue, so forgive me if I'm slightly off-base on that bit!]
To complicate the issue still more, our top legal position is actually the Attorney-General (but I think that's about the only time we use the word), who is assisted by the Solicitor-General - see http://www.cjsonline.org/working/attorney.html for a definition. The Solicitor-General is an MP and has Cabinet ranking - at the moment it's Harriet Harman QC, MP.
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There are lawyers who never go to court. I suspect that to use the title "attorney at law" you
must have been licenced and admitted to the bar.
My understanding of English difference is that solicitors can handle all law work that does not
call for appearance in court to represent a client, which is permitted only to barristers.
Where is sparteye, when we need her?
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Pooh-Bah
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Thanks rkay, that was understandable, interesting and succinct. But, as said above, I am still curious as to how that compares with the US situation. Does an attorney take the solicitor role or the barrister role or both? I think that would go some way to answer rav's query too. I believe wwh is right in what he says, but suspect there are more complications! Another thing that isn't clear to me is how Judges are appointed in the US. I have some idea how this is done in the UK and am not impressed with the process or the results of it (realising that that statement is a gross generalisation - we have had some impressive Judges. There was that chap Jeffries for instance).
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Carpal Tunnel
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Lawyers and attorneys are the same. That said, attorneys cost more! 
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In Canada, we do not use the term attorney to mean lawyer - unless we watch a lot of American tv. We have an Attorney-General and a Solicitor-General, but no Barrister-General!!
When we are called to the bar as lawyers, we can act as solicitors and/or barristers -- same education, same articling requirement (in Ontario, it was one year when I did it, but now I think it is only 10 months), same Bar Admission Course and Exams, and same governing body (in Ontario, the Law Society of Upper Canada - each province has its own). I'm a little foggy on this, but we might have had to take 2 separate oaths (if we did, they were both mandatory for all).
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What's the difference between a "lawyer" and an "attorney"?
Well, for one thing, who ever heard of an "attorney's joke"?
Some 400 years ago, Shakespeare wrote: "Why does a hearse horse snicker hauling a lawyer's bones?" Is this where it all began?
Fast forward to December 2002. My brother emailed me this gem last week:
Lawyers are like Slinkies . . . not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs.
My personal favorite: "What's black and brown and looks good on a lawyer?" Answer: "A doberman pincer."
Perhaps lawyers have a better sense of humor than attorneys.
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Dear Plutarch: An unexpected Christmas present to see you post again.
From eytymological dictionary online:
attorney - c.1303, from O.Fr. aturne "(one) appointed,"
pp. of aturner "to decree, assign, appoint," from a- "to" +
turner "turn." The sense is of "one appointed to represent
another's interests." In English law, a legal agent in the courts
of Common Law who prepares the cases for a barrister,
who pleads them (the equivalent of a solicitor in Chancery).
So much a term of contempt in England that it was
abolished by the Judicature Act of 1873 in favor of
solicitor. Double -t- is a mistaken 15c. attempt to restore a
non-existent L. original. Attorney general first recorded
1533 in sense of "legal officer of the state," from Fr., hence
the odd plural (subject first, adjective second).
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old hand
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Hey Plutarch, Long time no see, Merry Christmas. I agree. I had a long time friend who was a lawyer and not an attorney. He became guilty of a minor infraction of legal procedure. He hired an attorney to for his defence - Alan Dershowitz. After 400,000 dollars, and a year and a half in federal prison, he got out. Lawyers seldom go to jail, Attorneys never do. Merry Christmas to all good honest lawyers, and an un-merry Christmas to those attorneys who suck blood money from the poor.
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enthusiast
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A friend of mine keeps saying, "It's the 99% of bad lawyers who ruin it for the other 1%" -- ha ha ha!
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Just to throw a stone in the stew:
Years ago, I was told anyone can be an attorney since an attorney is someone appointed by a person to represent them. For example, at my neighbor's request, I could call the bank and negotiate for my neighbor by saying "I am acting for Mrs Jones."
HOWEVER : to be a lawyer or call yourself one you must go to Law School, and be admitted to the Bar before practicing law.
It may be it is different from when I was told..... but does anyone know for sure?
In years past you used to have a choice betwen "reading the law" by working in a lawyer's office for several years as a paid clerk while studying with that lawyer, then taking the bar exam - OR - going to law school. But. I do not know of any state that currently allows you to read the law and then take the bar exam....you have to go to law school .
Hmmmm, another option for the financially challenged down the tubes.
Where IS Sparteye? Still recovering from Christmas?
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anyone can be an attorney
There is power of attorney.
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Yes, indeed Faldage. It was a great help to me when my wife was terminally ill to have my son empowered to handle things I could not because of my deafness. And now my daughter is similarly empowere to handle my financial problems. Here's a URL about how to get it: http://www.legalzoom.com/legalwiz/powerofattorney/poa_procedure.htmlY
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stranger
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stranger
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Any one who is legally empowered to act on behalf of someone else may call themselves an attorney --- "as in being given the power of attorney."
A lawyer must have a law degree and a professional license.
A lawyer can be an attorney, but an attorney can't always be a lawyer.
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Heaven's to Betsy... a kupuna amongst us!
Lately the word has come to mean an older person deserving of respect also generally an older person with practical knowledge to impart to others.
However in the Pukui-Elbert dictionary the word kupuna is defined thus : "Demigod or culture hero, especially a supernatural being possessing several forms as Kama'pua'a and Laenihi); one possessing mana
{mana meqaning supernatural or divine power} If - indeed - you are Kupuna then I send my aloha and pili'i(respect.)
However if you just pulled this name out of the air I suggest you reconsider, as claiming Kupuna status without deserving it can be a spiritualy dangerous thing.
Hauoli Makahiki Hao!
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It sounds not unlike the Maaori tipuna, used of any ancestor, though not normally of living ancestors. It too, has deep spiritual signifcance. The call that welcomes guests onto the marae always invites the departed tipuna to come first.
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Yes, amazing how many words in Maori and Hawaiian are so much alike. In late 1980s when a group of Trustees from the Office of Hawaiian Affairs went to to meet the Maori Chiefs they had very little trouble understanding each other - each speaking in their own language!
And the calling of the Kupuna is the same in the chant (oli)preceeding Hawaiian gatherings.
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journeyman
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journeyman
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Hauoli Makahiki Hao!
(I think?...)
sjm, what is it wherever you are (I haven't quite figured that one out yet...)?
maria
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Pooh-Bah
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What do you have if you've got a dozen lawyers buried up to their necks in sand? Not enough sand.
Power of attorney is a phrase that specifically means that one person has been legally granted the power and responsibility to make legal decisions on the behalf of someone else. For example, an aging parent who is ill may grant power of attorney to his or her son or daughter in anticipation of later loss of mental functioning. Once that is done, if the ill person requires surgery it is the power-of-attorney who must sign the consent forms, even if the patient still is mentally competent. I suppose it also pertains to other legal actions like selling property.
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In the U.S., the Solicitor General is "the government's lawyer". He or she is a presidential appointee who argues cases for the govt. in the upper federal courts and chiefly before the Supreme Court. The Attorney General is the head of the Justice Dept. and is sort of the chief prosecutor of the U.S., except that he doesn't appear in court.
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Hmm--think I'll ask Sparteye to have a look here. In my experience, the general public calls all the "legal eagles" lawyers, whereas they tend to refer to themselves as attorneys. I had always thought it was simply a matter of pride, but am not sure after reading kupuna's post (welcome, by the way). (No offense, kup.--Sparteye's the only one I can think of who is a posting U.S. attorney--er, or lawyer.  I don't know if you are.) Attorneys who have ads on TV here always have a disclaimer to the effect that "Kentucky law does not recognize specialties within the practice of law" (funny, to hear that at the end of an ad that says, "If you've been injured in a car wreck, call Dewey Cheatem"), so that furthered my impression that anyone who has a law degree can (theoretically) practice any kind of law. =========================================================== The call that welcomes guests onto the marae always invites the departed tipuna to come first. That's really neat, sjm. Thank you for posting that. I think it's important to remember who we came from, for when we forget, we are lost. If they were the right kind of people, then we can try to emulate them. If they were not, or if we don't know, then we can try to live our lives better.
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